Politics Thread

[Giancarlo]

Politics, by its very nature, is a touchy subject. So in the spirit of keeping things in-line I set forth some simple guidelines that I ask all posters to consider when making a reply.


1.No Personal Attacks
Simply put - they don't belong here. IF you want to criticize someone's viewpoint, fine. Insulting whoever takes away from the matter at hand. Keep it somewhat professional. Calling someone a jerk or another name your mother told you to never say will not be tolerated. Attack the argument one is making, not the person making the arguement.

2.Cite References
Where did you get your history from? Did you find a credible source or find fact in a fortune cookie?

3.Stay on target/no-hijacking
Example: if there's a debate on nuclear weapons and you call Bush a liar on (insert talking point) that's a hijack. Start a new thread. Now this thread will grow and sprout permutations of the topic at hand, and that is both welcome and unavoidable, but please make it pertinent.

4.Support statements with fact
If you state an opinion, say why you have that opinion and back it up.

5.Opinions are like.....
We all have opinions, when 2 people disagree we don't need everyone chiming in saying that 'everyone has their opinion'. That's a cop-out and a sorry excuse for not standing up for your beliefs.

6.Where do you live?
In your first post to this thread, please include city/country. We have members on this forum from all across the globe. Because this forum is so rich in culture, stating where you live will help others understand your vantage point to the issue at hand.

Thanks to the bandwidth of F1Technical I now present you with:
The F1Technical.net Politics Thread

[Giancarlo]

I'll start this off with a quote:

"We make war that we may live in peace."
-Aristotle

Discuss.


*Chicago, USA*

[bhall]

It's difficult for me to discuss that quote since I'm not well trained in classical philosophy, and for the life of me, I can't think of any way in which that quote applies to the modern world.

I mean, as an American, I can't think of a war we've fought for peace since the Civil War. And even that was sketchy at best.

[Ray]

You know Giancarlo, there is a difference between drawing a line in the sand , and then there is a pissing contest. With this thread, and your 'challenge' you've done exactly the latter. Made a pissing contest over a simple debate over the internet. I don't agree with liberals, republicans, green party members, tree huggers, global warming, that guy Evil Weasel on here, or anyone who talks about what the daily life is in Iraq (I'VE SEEN it). Yet you don't see me walking around beating my chest and challenging everyone on here to a 'duel'. I've said some dumb things and gotten mad a few times, but making a pissing contest out of every disagreement is foolish. Get over it, you disagree. Live life without being so pissed off and immature.

[G-Rock]

On that Aristotle quote,

It basically states that mankind cannot escape war, so that if we do fight it may as well be for a worthwhile end result, peace.

While that rings true, I don't think that we as mankind should accept that as status quo. The goal should always be peace first, then if your own peace is threatened by an aggressor, then use war to maintain your peace.

However, you can suppress war with peacelike intentions, but the anger and resentment in a society may continue boiling below the surface until it boils over in the future again. Then negotiations need to be made to keep the peace again until the anger rears its ugly head once more. This ongoing process may inhibit these societies from progressing culturally, economically and spiritually, as so much energy is put into keeping peace.

A good war might be good for the long term peace of such situations, but the problem today that a "good war" means nuclear weapons and mass killing machines. Not a good ol' fashion man to man combat. It also means, for countries who don't have a government, endless terrorism and chaos could persist into infinity.

I don't think that Aristotles figurative meaning applies to today however his literal meaning does. I mean, dropping a nuke on an aggressor does create peace. It does it by completely eliminating the enemy. Without an enemy you have peace right?

[Ray]

All I gotta say is, draft beer not people.

[bhall]

Amen!

[P1]

I'll start this off with a quote:

"We make war that we may live in peace."
-Aristotle

Discuss.


*Chicago, USA*

My taste in philosiphy is a bit more modern , so here's a qoute I like:


Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that up to the poor



Black Sabbath is the best band in the Universe.

[Tom]

well if we're going to quote rock groups , heres one from my favorite albums, the final cut.

And as the windshield melts
My tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend.
Finally I understand the feelings of the few.
Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end.

From '2 suns in the sunset.'

[Ray]

I LOVE Pink Floyd!

[P1]

Here's a cheery bit from a song about nuclear genocide from the cold war era:

Red flash, clouds choking out the morning sky
They said it'd never come; we knew it was a lie
All forms of life die now; the humans all succumb
Time to kiss your ass goodbye; the end has just begun

This comes from a band that isn't exactly mainstream, so brownie points to whomever guesses the song title and band first.

[Ray]

In the age of Google, it's not hard to find. But since I cheated, I won't tell.

[P1]

I forgot that the internets had the Google.

[DaveKillens]

"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent"
- - Salvor Hardin

"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. "
-- Ronald Reagan

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg"
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Giancarlo]

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stewart Mill

Here's a good article that concerns the 'decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling':

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... entary-hed

Excerpt:

The battle in Iraq is about more than what happens there. This is one part of a larger fight--a global fight--against radical Islamic terrorists who have waged war on the United States and our allies.

This is not a question of fighting for land, for treasure, or for glory--we are fighting to rid the world of a radical and dangerous ideology. We are fighting to defend all that is sacred to our way of life. We are fighting to build a safer and more secure America--one where families can raise their children without the fear of terrorist attacks.

Lincoln famously said in 1858 that "a house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe, as Lincoln did then, that we must choose sides on a critical issue. Then, it was whether we would abolish the evil institution of slavery. Today, it is whether we will defeat the ideology that drives radical Islamic terrorism.