which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

[siskue2005]

It's was not the Pirelli who asked for that, I believe it was Mercedes who asked for it, bcoz their engine had allegedly more torque and power than any other team
So that's why rest of the teams rejected it

[bhall]

Engine torque ≠ torque at the wheels

[SectorOne]

Engine torque ≠ torque at the wheels

True but it still does not adress why Mercedes and Pirelli wanted sturdier tires to handle the increase in torque.
If it was crystal clear that you could easily negate that through gearing then it would be a non-issue and no worries from either party.
That´s not the case though.

[lebesset]

It's was not the Pirelli who asked for that, I believe it was Mercedes who asked for it, bcoz their engine had allegedly more torque and power than any other team
So that's why rest of the teams rejected it

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/23493372


doesn't seem to be the case , clearly a pirelli initiative


http://www.f1technical.net/news/18682

[raymondu999]

Engine torque ≠ torque at the wheels

True but it still does not adress why Mercedes and Pirelli wanted sturdier tires to handle the increase in torque.
If it was crystal clear that you could easily negate that through gearing then it would be a non-issue and no worries from either party.
That´s not the case though.

It could be that the "we have more torque" was an excuse for a different need for wider rears - perhaps their car has a lack of stability to require that wider rear, or maybe it has higher rear tyre wear so wants more rear tyres - but I think Ben's point (which he, as he often does, tends to imply suggestions in his exquisitely indirect way) was that the Merc wanting/needing bigger rear tyres might be due to a different reason

[Jonnycraig]

Engine torque ≠ torque at the wheels

True but it still does not adress why Mercedes and Pirelli wanted sturdier tires to handle the increase in torque.
If it was crystal clear that you could easily negate that through gearing then it would be a non-issue and no worries from either party.
That´s not the case though.

It could be that the "we have more torque" was an excuse for a different need for wider rears - perhaps their car has a lack of stability to require that wider rear, or maybe it has higher rear tyre wear so wants more rear tyres - but I think Ben's point (which he, as he often does, tends to imply suggestions in his exquisitely indirect way) was that the Merc wanting/needing bigger rear tyres might be due to a different reason

That seems unlikely. Mercedes have never struggled in the past with rear tyre wear.

[f1316]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112074

Article on what the drivers will have to do differntly. Interesting that, according to Ferrari at least, "For some races 100kg [of fuel] is more than enough".

You might suggest that Vettel has shown himself particularly adept at changing his style to suit the way his car peforms best in recent years, but I also remember a video (or bunch of videos) from ray a while back showing how Alonso's style has changed so much throughout the years; having been through so many changes in regulations (and remained competitive throughout) you'd imagine he's quite good at it.

[SectorOne]

It could be that the "we have more torque" was an excuse for a different need for wider rears - perhaps their car has a lack of stability to require that wider rear, or maybe it has higher rear tyre wear so wants more rear tyres - but I think Ben's point (which he, as he often does, tends to imply suggestions in his exquisitely indirect way) was that the Merc wanting/needing bigger rear tyres might be due to a different reason

But then you have Pirelli which do not produce cars of their own, also wanting different tires but teams said no so they then responded with going extra-conservative.

Plenty of people from different teams have mentioned the extra torque in relation to the tires so i don´t think they will just gear the car differently to negate all of that extra torque.

[raymondu999]

But then you have Pirelli which do not produce cars of their own, also wanting different tires but teams said no so they then responded with going extra-conservative.

Must have missed that one. Do you have a link?

[lebesset]

But then you have Pirelli which do not produce cars of their own, also wanting different tires but teams said no so they then responded with going extra-conservative.

Must have missed that one. Do you have a link?

actually it's more complicated than that !
in response to the teams resistance pirelli have floated the idea of a different compound front to rear !
would the teams make that decision themselves or pirelli decide if it was necessary ? wouldn't their choice involve favouring particular teams and/or drivers as what suited one wouldn't suit all ?
sounds like another can of worms created by the teams

[bhall]

[...]

Plenty of people from different teams have mentioned the extra torque in relation to the tires so i don´t think they will just gear the car differently to negate all of that extra torque.

Because the V6 turbos will have roughly the same horsepower as the recently mothballed V8s, wheel torque will also be roughly the same, provided the cars are appropriately geared to strike the same balance between acceleration and top speed. It is what it is.

[lebesset]

[...]

Plenty of people from different teams have mentioned the extra torque in relation to the tires so i don´t think they will just gear the car differently to negate all of that extra torque.

Because the V6 turbos will have roughly the same horsepower as the recently mothballed V8s, wheel torque will also be roughly the same, provided the cars are appropriately geared to strike the same balance between acceleration and top speed. It is what it is.

don't see that ; at the moment they set the gearing on a circuit by circuit basis
in future they will have to select ratios for the whole season

[SectorOne]

But then you have Pirelli which do not produce cars of their own, also wanting different tires but teams said no so they then responded with going extra-conservative.

Must have missed that one. Do you have a link?

Formula 1 cars could use wider tyres next season because supplier Pirelli is concerned the current dimensions will be unsafe.
Tyre will be under more stress next year because the new 1.6-litre turbo engines are expected to produce more power and torque than this year's 2.4-litre V8s.
Pirelli believes this means it will have to supply tyres with a bigger 'contact patch' with the track, to reduce stress.

The company has cited safety reasons for the expected need to switch, so governing body the FIA will feel it has no option but to agree, especially following a series of failures there have been with Pirelli tyres this season.
Pirelli's request has become political because 10 of the 11 teams want the tyre dimensions to remain the same, while Mercedes are open to the change.
Pirelli has asked for the rear-tyre width to be increased by 20mm to 400mm and for the diameter to increase from 660mm to 690mm.
It believes the tyres will need to be able to provide a 10% increase in longitudinal grip to cope with the greater power and torque from next year's engines.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/23493372

-

provided the cars are appropriately geared to strike the same balance between acceleration and top speed.

They will really never be appropriately geared because you can´t optimize one set of gears for 20 different tracks.

[bhall]

You're right. They'll be "optimized" for the power unit's peak power, which, again, will be roughly the same as last year.

Like I said, it what it is.

Beyond that, the V8s had more than enough power to spin the wheels anyway. So, this is nothing new, yanno?

EDIT: Just to put a bow on this, I think Pirelli asked for wider/larger rear tires, fully aware that the proposal would be rejected for aerodynamic reasons, in case the 2014 tires turn out to be just as terrible as the 2013 tires. That way Paul Hembery can tell the world "we told the teams they needed bigger tires, but they didn't listen." It won't make a lick of sense, but it will probably work.

(Then again, I'm a very cynical man.)

[lebesset]

that's a good point ...just WHY did the teams reject wider rear tyres ?
if there is a disadvantage all teams would be disadvantaged to the same degree and presumably the drivers the same
and if it is because one engine [ mercedes ?] is reckoned to have more grunt than the others why did 2 of the three mercedes teams vote against it ?