which driver will gain most from 2014 regs ?

[Jonnycraig]

that's a good point ...just WHY did the teams reject wider rear tyres ?

For the same reason most things in F1 get rejected. Self interest. More likely than the Mercedes engine needing wider rears, is the historical rear tyre munching Mercedes cars wanting sturdier rears, and why on earth would the other teams want to give them that.

[JimClarkFan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112074

Article on what the drivers will have to do differntly. Interesting that, according to Ferrari at least, "For some races 100kg [of fuel] is more than enough".

You might suggest that Vettel has shown himself particularly adept at changing his style to suit the way his car peforms best in recent years, but I also remember a video (or bunch of videos) from ray a while back showing how Alonso's style has changed so much throughout the years; having been through so many changes in regulations (and remained competitive throughout) you'd imagine he's quite good at it.

I can't agree mate.

When the regulation for where the teams could direct the exhaust gases changed it had a pretty big effect Vettels qualifying. Anytime the Red Bull lost rear downforce Vettel seemed to lose more ground relative to Webber in terms of pace. This tells me that Vettel performs optimally with a car which allows him to drive in a certain way. Vettel is a great racer so he always made his way back up the field.

Alonso has at trump card that I don't think many others (maybe Lewis), and that is he is better than anyone else at adapting his driving style to suit whatever the car demands. He isn't out and out the fastest racing driver I feel, especially when other racing drivers get the car setup just to their liking. But Alonso is universally very fast over such a wide range of car behaviours whereas Massa, Button, Vettel, Raikkonen, Webber and many others are only super fast in cars that suit their driving style.

I think if next year comes down to it, and it is a matter of who can adapt driving styles the best, then I personally see Alonso or Hamilton rising to the top and the likes of Vettel and others slipping down the order. If Vettel has one weakness, I feel it is his adaptability and his need to have a car allowing him to drive a certain way, he is super strong everywhere else.

[PlatinumZealot]

that's a good point ...just WHY did the teams reject wider rear tyres ?
if there is a disadvantage all teams would be disadvantaged to the same degree and presumably the drivers the same
and if it is because one engine [ mercedes ?] is reckoned to have more grunt than the others why did 2 of the three mercedes teams vote against it ?

Pirelly didn't have a mold for wider tyres having as large a sidewall as the F1 tyres and so they would have to make new molds, which means more expensive tyres and somebody didn't want to pay extra for making those new molds.. soo..

[SectorOne]

For the same reason most things in F1 get rejected. Self interest. More likely than the Mercedes engine needing wider rears, is the historical rear tyre munching Mercedes cars wanting sturdier rears, and why on earth would the other teams want to give them that.

But then you have to think about what the consequence was.

= More conservative tires. So who really won? I´d say Mercedes in either case.

[lebesset]

that's a good point ...just WHY did the teams reject wider rear tyres ?
if there is a disadvantage all teams would be disadvantaged to the same degree and presumably the drivers the same
and if it is because one engine [ mercedes ?] is reckoned to have more grunt than the others why did 2 of the three mercedes teams vote against it ?

Pirelly didn't have a mold for wider tyres having as large a sidewall as the F1 tyres and so they would have to make new molds, which means more expensive tyres and somebody didn't want to pay extra for making those new molds.. soo..

in that case why did pirelli press for the wider tyres ?

in any case the cost of a few new moulds is peanuts compared to costs incurred in making a season's F1 tyres

[raymondu999]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112074

Article on what the drivers will have to do differntly. Interesting that, according to Ferrari at least, "For some races 100kg [of fuel] is more than enough".

You might suggest that Vettel has shown himself particularly adept at changing his style to suit the way his car peforms best in recent years, but I also remember a video (or bunch of videos) from ray a while back showing how Alonso's style has changed so much throughout the years; having been through so many changes in regulations (and remained competitive throughout) you'd imagine he's quite good at it.

I can't agree mate.

I think we need to look at it differently. Vettel it seems is one to take more time to adapt (remember that initially, Webber was more comfortable with the exhaust-boosted aero; see summer 2010) but once he adapts, he adapts more completely, culminating in the devastating effect of him winning the exhaust era's last 9 races. Were it not for his gearbox in Silverstone, and his qualy mistake in Hungary, that probably would've been 13 on the trot.

Alonso seems more Clark-like. The engineers set it up to the theoretical optimum, tell him the best driving style for that setup, and he does it. Maybe it's less of a "wholesome" adaptation than Vettel, but quicker.

[radosav]

Driver that gets best car!
Without best car you have nothing to adapt to!

[JimClarkFan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112074

Article on what the drivers will have to do differntly. Interesting that, according to Ferrari at least, "For some races 100kg [of fuel] is more than enough".

You might suggest that Vettel has shown himself particularly adept at changing his style to suit the way his car peforms best in recent years, but I also remember a video (or bunch of videos) from ray a while back showing how Alonso's style has changed so much throughout the years; having been through so many changes in regulations (and remained competitive throughout) you'd imagine he's quite good at it.

I can't agree mate.

I think we need to look at it differently. Vettel it seems is one to take more time to adapt (remember that initially, Webber was more comfortable with the exhaust-boosted aero; see summer 2010) but once he adapts, he adapts more completely, culminating in the devastating effect of him winning the exhaust era's last 9 races. Were it not for his gearbox in Silverstone, and his qualy mistake in Hungary, that probably would've been 13 on the trot.

Alonso seems more Clark-like. The engineers set it up to the theoretical optimum, tell him the best driving style for that setup, and he does it. Maybe it's less of a "wholesome" adaptation than Vettel, but quicker.

I still think what I mentioned is more likely, but I admit that your alternative is entirely possible and I can see why that might be the case.

The reason why I think what I believe is more likely is simply because as the season progressed in 2012, and as Red Bull incrementally clawed back the rear downforce they had lost with the changes in regs, Vettel also got incrementally stronger.

That said, generally speaking, it is pretty much a fruitless task to compare drivers to one another unless they are in the same machinery.

Thankfully we will get some kind of answer next year.

[Juzh]

I think we need to look at it differently. Vettel it seems is one to take more time to adapt (remember that initially, Webber was more comfortable with the exhaust-boosted aero; see summer 2010)

Cracked chassis in monaco and spain. He gets new chassis in turkey and is again on pace with webber.

[PlatinumZealot]

that's a good point ...just WHY did the teams reject wider rear tyres ?
if there is a disadvantage all teams would be disadvantaged to the same degree and presumably the drivers the same
and if it is because one engine [ mercedes ?] is reckoned to have more grunt than the others why did 2 of the three mercedes teams vote against it ?

Pirelly didn't have a mold for wider tyres having as large a sidewall as the F1 tyres and so they would have to make new molds, which means more expensive tyres and somebody didn't want to pay extra for making those new molds.. soo..

in that case why did pirelli press for the wider tyres ?

in any case the cost of a few new moulds is peanuts compared to costs incurred in making a season's F1 tyres

does not back up my info but this is all i could find on a reason why the tyres were not widened.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109055

[Jonnycraig]

Vettel it seems is one to take more time to adapt (remember that initially, Webber was more comfortable with the exhaust-boosted aero; see summer 2010)

Glorious nonsense I'm afraid. Only mechanical failures stopped Vettel winning the first three races of 2010 (8th, 9th, 2nd for Webber). As mentioned above he had a cracked chassis in Monaco & Spain, was overtaking for the win in Turkey when the collision happened, got a first corner puncture in Silverstone and got a DT in Hungary undertaking a team order to help Webber up the field and ultimately to the win in a race he was comfortably leading before the SC.

When Mark Webber tells you that Vettel's biggest strength is his adaptability, you know you're onto a loser claiming otherwise.

[raymondu999]

I'm quite sure Webber said Vettel's biggest strength is race management, not adaptability.

[kalinka]

Gary Paffett on the new driving style for 2014 >

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _to_drive/

[lebesset]

Gary Paffett on the new driving style for 2014 >

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _to_drive/

delighted to hear that the new cars are going to be more difficult to drive with new techniques ...for two reasons
the best drivers will exploit it best
it will level the playing field for the inexperienced drivers as everybody is going to be learning new cars , maybe the thinking behind McLaren's new driver

so maybe the answer to the question asked in this thread is....the less experienced F1 drivers , they won't be years behind in driving experience on the type of car

[Jonnycraig]

For the same reason most things in F1 get rejected. Self interest. More likely than the Mercedes engine needing wider rears, is the historical rear tyre munching Mercedes cars wanting sturdier rears, and why on earth would the other teams want to give them that.

But then you have to think about what the consequence was.

= More conservative tires. So who really won? I´d say Mercedes in either case.

I would suggest that Red Bull will be far from heartbroken at conservative tyres.