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Ok, but what about the people of the Middle East that make generalizations about the west like we are all one religion/culture? Going even further, why do so many Muslims move to the west, indulge in it's freedom, only to join terrorist cells?We cannot equate Muslims to Arabs, because only 19% of Muslims worldwide are born Arabs. The fact that most people in the "west" are ignorant to facts like these about the Muslim world may be at the root of the problems they face. President Bush has turned the War on Terror into a War on Islam, everytime he and his cohorts speak about the issue they make sweeping generalizations about Muslims and no one keeps them or them or the media in check.
...just calling a spade a spade.3KGT wrote:Giancarlo, I dont intend for this reply to sound like a personal attack, but you have to begin understand that looking at Islam through a list of terror attacks against the US and her allies is just plain ignorant.
If the people on F1technical made US policy - I'd be praying a on a rug right now.miqi23 wrote:You surely dont know what you are talking about do you. So many people on this forum said - dont piss them off. As DaveKillens said, you have more Jihadis now then there were before and you know who is responsible for it
Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961, Military-Industrial Complex Speech"Throughout America's adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.
Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.
Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research -- these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.
But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.
The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.
IV.
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Now that you agree that not all muslims are the same and hopefully you have dumped your anti-muslim comment and only refer to this minority so called the beasts, it does make sense to talk about it now dont you think.Giancarlo wrote:If the people on F1technical made US policy - I'd be praying a on a rug right now.miqi23 wrote:You surely dont know what you are talking about do you. So many people on this forum said - dont piss them off. As DaveKillens said, you have more Jihadis now then there were before and you know who is responsible for it
Sure...leave them alone. What did India do to deserve those bombings? Why are terrorists attacking a nation with no jews and its name doesn't end with 'merica? Kashmir perhaps? Isn't that a holy city? Hmmm...
These beasts kill anything that doesn't agree with their ideology - even other muslims. You can ask the Turks about that.
After some pondering, and listening to the rhetoric from the middle east, one may start to believe that this war might actually be religiously motivated. Is it possible that when they say jihad on America, they actually mean they want a holy war? Nah, that's just jihad-o lingo for trade reform and too many commercials on TV. Extremists constantly call suicide bombers 'martyrs' and the rotting in hell Ayatollah Khomeini giving plastic keys to children, telling them 'its the key to paradise', and have them commit suicide bum-rushing gunfire. They have a memorial to those people, they call it 'The fountain of the martyrs' and the water that runs in it is colored red and is considered to be their blood. Ayatollahs are religious figures, make no mistake about it.
But for anyone to say that radical islam is evil and started a war with the west is 'racisist', 'like Hitler', 'islamophobia', and a slew of other bleeding heart slander.
Blame Bush, blame it on oil, blame Israel, blame imperialism, blame Danish cartoonists, blame the crusades, blame Christianity, blame Judaism, blame democracy, blame the Atkins Diet, blame policy, blame politics, blame [fill in blank]
BUT HOW DARE ANYONE BLAME THEIR RELIGION! Oh my, that may actually inspire someone within the muslim community to stand tall, speak loudly, and tell everyone with bombs on their chest and guns pointed at innocents to chill out. We can't have that now can we? It might offend someone...
Seems like you have forgotten 9/11. That's the result of inaction and 'leaving them alone'.
and you know whats happening there now. They are still busy sorting it out and non of the International powers are helping it out. If the problem is sorted both the countries especially Pakistan (a muslim state) can go their own ways and work towards more development and we dont want it to happen. I think you are clever enough to understand how this works. West, in your opinion you tried to present Islam in three sentences. You also mentioned the word middle east, which comprises only 19% of the actual muslim population.West wrote:Here's the problem with Islam (IMO)
1) Right after "those cartoons" were published, the Middle East's response was to burn down every Danish or American embassy they can get remotely close to. I honestly think they could have achieved the same effect by just sticking to boycotting Danish pastries.
2) Protestors of said cartoons varied from "Islam is the religion of peace" to "death to those that insult Islam." I mean damn make up your mind already.
3) Accusing the Pope of being a puppet of the West, after his quoting of a somewhat "anti-Islamic" emperor, or general, or whatever.
4) Pepsi - "Pay Every Penny, Save Israel?" Give me a f*ckin break. It's funny how some in the Middle East say this is the truth, considering Pepsi was founded in 1903, long before the establishment of a Jewish state.
Even as such I don't think nuking the area or going to war with these people is the best way to re-educate them. They've never been fond of our country and stepping into Iraq was just crossing the line. Even if some people in Iraq were happy Saddam's neck was broken, what have we really accomplished there? At least when Saddam was around people could buy food in the markets without fear of some idiot willing to blow the living hell out of everybody. Kofi Annan said the same thing, minus the rhetoric.
Christians are also not innocent from criticism, especially those disrespectful demonstrators at soldiers' funerals. Then there's the KKK and abortion clinic bombings and so forth.
Besides, this forum doesn't really sound like a "politics" forum at this point, and it seems like the "rules" on the first page seem to have been sidestepped. If we wanted an anti-Islamic thread that should have been started seperately.
Anyway, Giancarlo, you may want to check this page out:
http://www.you-got-mail.com (NSFW)
some people here share the same thoughts, in a more humorous manner.