More or Less Passing with Rev Limit?

[G-Rock]

It's come up a few times that the drivers think that the proposed rev limit of 19000 will decrease passing opportunities (especially down a straightaway)

In a draft, the car ahead of you pulls you ahead and if you're gearing isn't set up for that, you could potentially overrev your engine, kicking in the limiter and then not make the pass. That's the only scenario that I can see happening but if the car is slightly overgeared, that shouldn't be and issue (but then you may not reach 19000 at the end of the straight either)

A slightlly overgeared car should have an engine then that would put out it's max hp at, say 18700 so that you have 300 rpms left over to make a pass under a draft.

Or maybe passing with a tow won't be the norm anymore?...

[Sawtooth-spike]

I didnt Think that Towing, Drafting Or Slip streaming (which ever you like) was actualy a Pull. I was under the impression that the car infront is punching a Big whole in the Air in front of you, so when you get close enought behind in the pocket you effectivly have less Drag. So you 190000 RPM is having to plus less hard to get you upto speed there for you can go faster/Accelarate faster. So i see it as a gearing issue. you want you top gear to have enough left to allow you to make that dive on the hair pin at the end of the straight.

[BreezyRacer]

I envision that with the 7 speed boxes everyone is usig they will have no problem using final gear to be short of optimal without a draft. Given that all the teams have at least two cars this is something they check out in practice to make sure the gearing they are using will accomidate draft passing.

I don't see it having any effect on passing, but then it's not by butt in the car (darn!).

[i70q7m7ghw]

Sawtooth-Spike is right, its because the car in front is taking the brunt of the drag, get close enough behind it and you accelerate to top speed faster due to the reduced drag. The car in front can't psychically pull you...

As for the rev limit... won't be a problem once the engines are re-tuned. They usually tune the car to top out (just before the rev limit) at the end of the longest straight. So when a driver manages to get in a slip-stream he just gets to top revs before the driver in front. Even if he was bang up to the limiter he would still be going faster than the guy in front.

[Tom]

Actually i think the car in front is pulling you, or rather pushing you. I was under the impression that the lead car created a low pressure vortex if you like and the higher pressure (normal air pressure) outside this vortex pushes the following car closer into the low pressure area, like a vacum.

[G-Rock]

I'm with Tom on that one, the car in front is pulling a low pressure area behind it which you would then enter and enjoy minimal drag. However way you wish to look at it, the outcome is the same.

Ever drafted a lorry/semi? I used to with my 78 mini and if I got behind the right truck, it could allow me to go up to my rev limit (over 150km/hr) and I would have to back off. Normally that car would only do 135-140km/hr on a good day. If I had an extra gear I could probably go as fast as the truck I was following.

From what I understand about drafting, once you're following a car, you can back off on the throttle, thereby having unused extra power to accelerate towards the car, swerve out from behind and then the extra momentum created by that burst off acceleration will give you a small jump on the car infront. (I think that's what I learned from the film "Grand Prix" )

Any Nascar experts out there that could help out? Drafting is one of the main principals of passing there and they also seem to have equal power and rpms between teams.

[flynfrog]

from days of thunder

- Don't do anything weird. - I won't.
It's something Harry and I work on together.
It's called draughting.
One car tucks in behind another. Two cars can go faster than one.
They divide the air resistance.
The lead car has to floor it to hit mph.
The car behind doesn't. He can go just as fast with power in reserve.
When these two cars come off that last turn, -
- the car at the back can move out of the draught, -
- slingshot past the lead car and beat it to the finish line.
He goes straight to Victory Lane.
- You and Harry work on that? - More or less.
Yeah, right. Is there anything you want to do besides racing?
- Anything you say. - You must want something else...
...eventually.

[Sawtooth-spike]

I cant see this sucking for being strong enough to pull a car forward.

Also remember why F1 cars dont wanna be to close wile braking for corners. cus the slipstream of the lead car, will cut down the amount of air running over the wings and stuff, there for losing downforce, so you lose it in the corners.

Happy for one of our Aero Guys to Give us the bible on this stuff.

[allan]

personally, i see this rev limit thing another stupid idea by mad max.
Wanna make cars slower? here u go, two track records were reset this winter testing with that rev limiter on, so what's the point???? the only thing it does is that it make the noise less exciting and the race more boring

[pRo]

personally, i see this rev limit thing another stupid idea by mad max.
Wanna make cars slower? here u go, two track records were reset this winter testing with that rev limiter on, so what's the point???? the only thing it does is that it make the noise less exciting and the race more boring

Just imagine how fast the cars would be without these restrictions.

I'm not sure if they ever wanted to make the cars slower, but more like keep them at the current pace without getting too much faster.

[mx_tifoso]

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I was thinking about it right now.

Was the 19K rev limit imposed to allow an increase in the life span of the engines (among other reasons of course)? Since increasing rpm generally decreases total life span, if I am correct. So in a way, if there was no rev limit on the current V8 it would be extremely difficult to extend the life span to three GP's, from the current two.

[ISLAMATRON]

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I was thinking about it right now.

Was the 19K rev limit imposed to allow an increase in the life span of the engines (among other reasons of course)? Since increasing rpm generally decreases total life span, if I am correct. So in a way, if there was no rev limit on the current V8 it would be extremely difficult to extend the life span to three GP's, from the current two.

That is exactly why they put in the 19K limit, to extend engine life, but not just for the races, for the testing as well, thats where a big part of the cost saving comes in.

The teams may have to self impose an even lower rev limit to extend the life of these engines to 3 or more races.

Quick question, was the 2 race rule put into effect the same time the engines were being designed? or was it after they were already introduced, cant remember.

[mx_tifoso]

Thank you.

The two GP engine rule was actually introduced in 2005, during the last season of V10's.

About self imposing lower rev limits to be able to last three race weekends, IIRC RBR said that they were almost sure that their Renault engine was capable of doing so as it is. But maybe after the 'equalization' movement it won't be as durable, but who knows at the moment. Since I really haven't seen anything concerning this for some time now.

[ISLAMATRON]

So if these v-8's were designed with the 2 race rule already in mind then they may not have actually needed the 19K RPM limit. I know they were pushing 20K and maybe even approaching 21K, at some points.

I think they should remove the RPM limit, but make them race 4 races.... it would be cool to see who blows up on the last lap like they were doing this year.