$200 million budget cap agreed?

[FoxHound]

Whilst I'm loathe to quote a Christian Sylt news piece, this one has names and quotes attached to it.

Apparently Bernie says the teams have agreed a 200 million dollar per annum spending cap. The thorny issue is what encompasses the 200 million.

We have approved the budget cap. It is going to happen. Everyone agreed to $200million. What hasn’t been agreed is what is in the $200million. Unless we include everything, I am sure people will find ways around it. It’s going to be difficult

I recall Red Bull arguing for engines to be included in any budget cap. They would want that as they don't pay for their engines.
If Red Bull can spend the full allocation of 200 million on aero and chassis and get an engine free, surely this is just another loophole to abuse the system?
If Ferrari or Mercedes have a net spend of close to 150/200 million on engines alone, will this mean they have tuppence to build their cars?
Of course I don't see it going that way, but it is a line being pursued by RB. If engines are included in any cap it will give Red Bull a legislative and financial advantage written in the rules.

There will also be a million dollar reward for anyone blowing the whistle on a teams transgression of the 200 million budget cap. Although one suspects anyone of transgressing a 200 million cap to be more than capable of exceeding this "reward" for the whistleblowers silence.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... e-breakers

[WhiteBlue]

I'm pretty sure emgines are not part of the budget cap when it comes in any form. They have found the freeze again for the purpose of cost control in a possible engine cost race. So there isn't an objective need to be addressed here. If the 200 m are really the target it is not going to do an aweful lot unlesss they keep it tight and keep reducing the cap in future years.

[darkmninya]

Red bull spents 400m a year, that cap will hurt them...

[raymondu999]

Still doesn't solve the outsourcing issue.

[clipsy1H]

officially yes but unofficially? it's hard to impossible to control teams budgets.. and to be honest a bit unfair. Always big teams like Ferrari , Mercedes , McLaren or Red Bull can find enough money for what they want so i think this is a bit for press and world who criticizing F1 for spending that much in these hard days for world economy.

If this rule can be implemented it may help teams from second row like Lotus or Williams to reduce the gap... which is good in one way but this is still F1 !! the most important auto competition in the world.

For me as a fan F1 mean the things like huge engines , huge budgets and latest technology

[Gridlock]

I quizzed a friend who used to work accounts for a major F1 supplier about their invoicing, they know nothing about F1 but they confirmed the majority of RBR and STR purchase orders came from Red Bull Technologies.

Just sayin'

Also this pretty much guarantees a Ferrari WEC entry, no?

[raymondu999]

I quizzed a friend who used to work accounts for a major F1 supplier about their invoicing, they know nothing about F1 but they confirmed the majority of RBR and STR purchase orders came from Red Bull Technologies.

Just sayin'[/youtube]
Thar ye go. That's exactly what I meant. Red Bull will just buy a "complete F1 car up to spec, with promise of continuous upgrades through the year" at 20million. Done. I'm not castigating Red Bull, but my point is that teams can work around this rule by doing this "outsourcing"

Also this pretty much guarantees a Ferrari WEC entry, no?

I don't follow.

[Gridlock]

You can do engine work for WEC which directly transfers to F1, no?

[Lycoming]

You can do engine work for WEC which directly transfers to F1, no?

no, if you wanted to make a serious attempt at WEC, you would use a WEC-specific engine. In any case the two events are rather different.

[Tommorris747]

Whilst I'm loathe to quote a Christian Sylt news piece, this one has names and quotes attached to it.

Apparently Bernie says the teams have agreed a 200 million dollar per annum spending cap. The thorny issue is what encompasses the 200 million.

We have approved the budget cap. It is going to happen. Everyone agreed to $200million. What hasn’t been agreed is what is in the $200million. Unless we include everything, I am sure people will find ways around it. It’s going to be difficult

I recall Red Bull arguing for engines to be included in any budget cap. They would want that as they don't pay for their engines.
If Red Bull can spend the full allocation of 200 million on aero and chassis and get an engine free, surely this is just another loophole to abuse the system?
If Ferrari or Mercedes have a net spend of close to 150/200 million on engines alone, will this mean they have tuppence to build their cars?
Of course I don't see it going that way, but it is a line being pursued by RB. If engines are included in any cap it will give Red Bull a legislative and financial advantage written in the rules.

There will also be a million dollar reward for anyone blowing the whistle on a teams transgression of the 200 million budget cap. Although one suspects anyone of transgressing a 200 million cap to be more than capable of exceeding this "reward" for the whistleblowers silence.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... e-breakers

Nice find
I don't trust the Express but I often read news about the financial workings of F1 from this guy Silt in papers which I literally put my money on (stock tips ). At the top of my pile are the Guardian and Telegraph and his name pops up in them all the time and its always about the finance of F1. Not sure why he would write for a tabloid rag like the Express but you can bet your bottom dollar that the Guardian, Telegraph and Independent vet their writers so he must hit the mark. Think I remember seeing him on CNN or CNBC once or twice too and they are credible so I'm willing to believe this one. Anyone got any news about teams over spending

[danielk]

I think this would be impossible to police. Lets say Ferrari for example, sponsored by Shell, Shell do a hell of allot of research in to fuel for them how about they just reduce their sponsorship bill to cover the research?

All the companies that they usually pay for research in to heat technology, Electronics etc instead of paying the company give them advertising space on the car in return for services.

would any of these actions be covered by the cap?

[mcjamweasel]

Also this pretty much guarantees a Ferrari WEC entry, no?

Is there any kind of budget cap in WEC?

If not, I can see it now - Ferrari WEC team spends millions on a new simulator then hires Alonso as a 'test driver'. Et voila - they now have a free Sim.

Or the WEC team could do a bunch of CFD, or the wrong model could accidentally make it into the wind tunnel during the WEC teams wind on time.

The possibilities are endless - and just about impossible to police.

[CBeck113]

It's worse than that. Since the teams can outsource work, for instance to a company within their ownership (Red Bull Racing & Red Bull Technology, or McLaren F1 & McLaren Electronics for example), a bill can be written for $1.00 to cover hundreds of hours of development work. Or prototype parts will be supplied for free (research purposes). It would be very important to keep the costs under control, but it is not realistically possible to police this budget. And there will always be fluctuations in ownership at the back of the field - this is capitalistic business, and has no interest in tradition or pity. Just money.

[darkmninya]

Im sure atleast it would reduce the budget, red bull spents 400m a year, thats no fair competition where force india spent only 130m...

[Pup]

We have approved the budget cap. It is going to happen. Everyone agreed to $200million. What hasn’t been agreed is what is in the $200million. Unless we include everything, I am sure people will find ways around it. It’s going to be difficult

Sounds like a typical Bernie quote. "It's done! Decided! We've figured out everything but the difficult parts!"

There will also be a million dollar reward for anyone blowing the whistle on a teams transgression of the 200 million budget cap. Although one suspects anyone of transgressing a 200 million cap to be more than capable of exceeding this "reward" for the whistleblowers silence.

I'm more than a bit wary about providing powerful incentives to accuse people of cheating. Can we have a reciprocal rule that penalizes teams who's accusations can't be proven?