2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[321apex]

MERCEDES AMG F1 ‏@MercedesAMGF1 8m
This is due to a greater amount of power and slightly less downforce. More power + less downforce = higher top speeds #FastFacts

Mercedes say they are up on power vs last year..

It depends on how they view power, average power or peak power.

Interesting idea, lets try your suggestion in the "equation" included in the tweet.

Lower peak power + less downforce = higher top speeds.

No, im not convinced thats right.

They have "torquier" power band, which means they slingshot from corners faster. As a result you may view it as greater average power than before, even when peak power is lower. On top of that one more gear ratio helps stay in the "sweet" part of power delivery longer.

In drag racing they say, that torque gives you ET, while power gives you MPH.

[tuj]

Ferrari said on their website that peak power was actually greater than 2013 V8's.

From the F14T site:

The 2014 Power Units produce greater peak power than their 2013 counterparts and do so at lower RPM with higher torque.

[OO7]

Interesting idea, lets try your suggestion in the "equation" included in the tweet.

Lower peak power + less downforce = higher top speeds.

No, im not convinced thats right.

Well they could be 20hp down on peak power compared to 2013, but with a significant reduction in drag which more than makes up for the small power deficit.

EDIT:
I stand corrected. The Ferrari website states that the 2014 power units produce more peak power than their 2013 counterparts. I hope they were including the 80hp KERS power in their comparison to the 2013 unit.

[OO7]

Ferrari said on their website that peak power was actually greater than 2013 V8's.

From the F14T site:

The 2014 Power Units produce greater peak power than their 2013 counterparts and do so at lower RPM with higher torque.

Well that's fantastic =D> This is great news especially considering the debates earlier in the thread. Do you have a link?

[tuj]

http://f14t.ferrari.com

Click Tech Specs. Keep clicking Right until you get to Transmission (last page)

[OO7]

http://f14t.ferrari.com

Click Tech Specs. Keep clicking Right until you get to Transmission (last page)

Thank you tuj, that's brilliant news, It means they are getting more that 670bhp from the ICE!

[wuzak]

The Ferrari engine is the most compact laterally and uses an air-water-air intercooler, therefore it can run significantly smaller sidepods, thus reducing drag. Also, don't forget that top speed is often also an indicator of a lack of down-force in F1.

100hp less at 336km/h (Alonso's recorded maximum speed) would require ~12% less drag. Condsidering that the cars are said to be 15% less draggy compared to last year, it is unlikely that one has almost the same improvement against the others.

Next top speed was Magnussen at 330km/h. He has the Mercedes engine, supposedly with the 100hp extra. That would suggest the Macca is carrying ~20% more drag.

Seems very unlikely to me.

[wuzak]

http://f14t.ferrari.com

Click Tech Specs. Keep clicking Right until you get to Transmission (last page)

Thank you tuj, that's brilliant news, It means they are getting more that 670bhp from the ICE!

If they are comparing the PU with the V8 + KERS. If they are just comparing the V8 then it would be less.

[OO7]

http://f14t.ferrari.com

Click Tech Specs. Keep clicking Right until you get to Transmission (last page)

Thank you tuj, that's brilliant news, It means they are getting more that 670bhp from the ICE!

If they are comparing the PU with the V8 + KERS. If they are just comparing the V8 then it would be less.

Yes, you are correct and I edited my original post. It is still a little ambiguous.

[wuzak]

The Ferrari engine is the most compact laterally and uses an air-water-air intercooler, therefore it can run significantly smaller sidepods, thus reducing drag. Also, don't forget that top speed is often also an indicator of a lack of down-force in F1.

Where did you get this idea from?
And why would the sidepods be smaller if it still would require the same surface area for air to heat exchanger transfer?
air to water to air doesn't make any difference on an open wheeler like an F1 car. It only makes sense on cars that have sizable interior spaces. Almost every area on an F1 car is exposed to the air, and there are no interior spaces, as everything is tightly packaged.
You wont find any space to place that air to water intercooler. And then you still have another intercooler to locate and a water pump.

The liquid to air intercooler doesn't need to be as big, and so the sidepod can be smaller, as can its entry and exit.

The cooler that cools the compressed air can be mounted away, out of the air stream, as can the pump.

[tuj]

100hp less at 336km/h (Alonso's recorded maximum speed) would require ~12% less drag. Condsidering that the cars are said to be 15% less draggy compared to last year, it is unlikely that one has almost the same improvement against the others.

Next top speed was Magnussen at 330km/h. He has the Mercedes engine, supposedly with the 100hp extra. That would suggest the Macca is carrying ~20% more drag.

I never suggested that Mercedes had 100hp more than Ferrari. I thought we had all put that rumor to bed.

[wuzak]

[...] So it would not surprise me when Merc comes out of the race for performance and reliability ahead of Ferari and Renault. The first half of testing very much points into this direction.

Is there any evidence that Ferrari / Sauber / Marussia had troubles with ERS?

Not having significant trouble isn't the criterion for success IMO. Hard -and software of the ERS will be absolutely critical to performance and reliabiluty this year. Not the ICE, not the turbo but the electrical recovery systems and their best management will be crucial for the 2014 constructor championship.

You've been saying for some time that Ferrari would struggle with these engines, and that they will be behind Renault and Mercedes.

They appear to be behind Mercedes, if only on program timing. But they are way ahead of Renault.

And the problems Ferrari powered teams have been having are not too dissimilar to the Mercedes powered teams - things like fuel system issues (Williams, Marussia) and telemetry/sensor issues (just about all of them).

And Ferrari bagged the top speed of 336km/h. That doesn't suggest they are wanting for power.

[wuzak]

100hp less at 336km/h (Alonso's recorded maximum speed) would require ~12% less drag. Condsidering that the cars are said to be 15% less draggy compared to last year, it is unlikely that one has almost the same improvement against the others.

Next top speed was Magnussen at 330km/h. He has the Mercedes engine, supposedly with the 100hp extra. That would suggest the Macca is carrying ~20% more drag.

I never suggested that Mercedes had 100hp more than Ferrari. I thought we had all put that rumor to bed.

Sorry, I got confused.

It started with this comment:

It is a deeper note because it has 100hp more

[OO7]

It should also be noted that during an Interview Ferrari's Marmorini (engine department) mentioned 650bhp or 600 to 650bhp from ICE.

[321apex]

The liquid to air intercooler doesn't need to be as big, and so the sidepod can be smaller, as can its entry and exit.

The cooler that cools the compressed air can be mounted away, out of the air stream, as can the pump.

I would tend to agree with this.
Such a system would require one more heat exchanger, but that one will be under cover of bodywork. The pump for moving water would add some small amount of weight, but all can be packaged quite low to not penalize the installation.

The IC in the sidepod will also be smaller in cross section to the wind, because water cooling jackets can be much thinner in cross section that comparable ones containing air.