How Many Finishers in Melbourne?

[lebesset]

i think for the first time the fuel consumption will be measured by on board sensors
does anyone know how accurate they will be ? to start with the manufacturer got it to within 1.5 % , not good enough , but later it said ...to within FIA specification ...which is what ? will there be any margin allowed ?

presumably they will start with more than 100Kg [ mass not weight I presume ] to allow for the sample at the end , say an extra Kg

[hollus]

This brings me back to a possibility I at hinted in another thread. If you are running out of fuel (this year meaning about to use more than 100Kg), it is better to park the car with two laps to go than to get disqualified for using 100.5Kgs. Bizarre.

In all likelihood (IMHO), the Caterham vs Marussia battle will be over after the Melbourne race. It might look like Melbourne 2002, where Webber became the hero by finishing 5th while effectively running last. Here the race results from the wikipedia, with Salo picking a point after breaking down:

Pos 	No	Driver 	                        Constructor 	        Laps 	Time/Retired 	Grid 	Points
1 	1 	Germany Michael Schumacher 	Ferrari     	        58 	1:35:36.792 	2 	10
2 	6 	Colombia Juan Pablo Montoya 	Williams-BMW 	        58 	+18.628 	6 	6
3 	4 	Finland Kimi Räikkönen 	        McLaren-Mercedes 	58 	+25.067 	5 	4
4 	16 	United Kingdom Eddie Irvine 	Jaguar-Cosworth 	57 	+1 Lap 	        19 	3
5 	23 	Australia Mark Webber 	        Minardi-Asiatech 	56 	+2 Laps 	18 	2
6 	24 	Finland Mika Salo 	        Toyota 	                56 	+2 Laps 	14 	1
7 	22 	Malaysia Alex Yoong 	        Minardi-Asiatech 	55 	+3 Laps 	21 	 
8 	17 	Spain Pedro de la Rosa 	        Jaguar-Cosworth 	53 	+5 Laps 	20 	 
Ret 	3 	United Kingdom David Coulthard 	McLaren-Mercedes 	33 	Gearbox 	4 	 
Ret 	11 	Canada Jacques Villeneuve 	BAR-Honda 	        27 	Rear Wing 	13 	 
Ret 	10 	Japan Takuma Sato 	        Jordan-Honda 	        12 	Electrical 	22 	 
Ret 	14 	Italy Jarno Trulli 	        Renault 	        8 	Accident 	7 	 
Ret 	2 	Brazil Rubens Barrichello 	Ferrari 	        0 	Collision 	1 	 
Ret 	5 	Germany Ralf Schumacher 	Williams-BMW 	        0 	Collision 	3 	 
Ret 	9 	Italy Giancarlo Fisichella 	Jordan-Honda 	        0 	Collision 	8 	 
Ret 	8 	Brazil Felipe Massa 	        Sauber-Petronas 	0 	Collision 	9 	 
Ret 	7 	Germany Nick Heidfeld 	        Sauber-Petronas 	0 	Collision 	10 	 
Ret 	15 	United Kingdom Jenson Button 	Renault 	        0 	Collision 	11 	 
Ret 	12 	France Olivier Panis 	        BAR-Honda 	        0 	Collision 	12 	 
Ret 	25 	United Kingdom Allan McNish 	Toyota 	                0 	Collision 	16 	 
DSQ 	20 	Germany Heinz-Harald Frentzen 	Arrows-Cosworth 	16 	Disqualified 	15 	 
DSQ 	21 	Brazil Enrique Bernoldi 	Arrows-Cosworth 	15 	Disqualified 	17

[Gridlock]

presumably they will start with more than 100Kg [ mass not weight I presume ] to allow for the sample at the end , say an extra Kg

It's 100Kg lights-to-flag, plus your outlap and inlap and fuel sample, plus contingency.

[Gridlock]

This brings me back to a possibility I at hinted in another thread. If you are running out of fuel (this year meaning about to use more than 100Kg), it is better to park the car with two laps to go than to get disqualified for using 100.5Kgs. Bizarre.

Be a classified finisher instead of DSQ you mean? Do the regs allow for that?

[beelsebob]

This brings me back to a possibility I at hinted in another thread. If you are running out of fuel (this year meaning about to use more than 100Kg), it is better to park the car with two laps to go than to get disqualified for using 100.5Kgs. Bizarre.

Be a classified finisher instead of DSQ you mean? Do the regs allow for that?

If you retire at greater than 90% race distance, sure.

[Gridlock]

I'm glad I'm not on the stewards at Melbourne...

[daveyrace]

As I said earlier in the thread before this last test session I fully expect three quarters of the grid to fail to finish. How many cars/drivers have managed to do a race distance? half the field? Of these there still seems to be a high incidence of failure.

As you say Gridlock, being a steward in Melbourne will be a busy job. Lucky old Bernd Mayländer will get to do a few laps too I think . Probably some cars outside the 107% rule in qualifying, problems in qualy leading onto/into the race and then all the flags, safety cars. If something needs fixing before the race you can count that driver out, these cars have so much stuff packaged tightly into them. Will any team manage to get both cars to finish?

Of those that do finish the final results will take some working out if these fuel issues cause a bunch of cars to stop before the end so they don't go over the 100kg limit.

The more I think about it the more likely I think it is that it might be a push to fill the podium at the end .

Would they stop the race if it's just one driver chugging round on their lonesome? ha ha!

[JimClarkFan]

I voted 13-14, I'm thinking much lower now

[gray41]

Its very probable that only half might finish.

As long as Lewis is in the top 3 ill be happy.

[langwadt]

This brings me back to a possibility I at hinted in another thread. If you are running out of fuel (this year meaning about to use more than 100Kg), it is better to park the car with two laps to go than to get disqualified for using 100.5Kgs. Bizarre.

Be a classified finisher instead of DSQ you mean? Do the regs allow for that?

don't know, but I don't see it being different that last year then you could also have case of finishing the race with less than needed for the fuel sample or stopping with enough for the sample

[beelsebob]

This brings me back to a possibility I at hinted in another thread. If you are running out of fuel (this year meaning about to use more than 100Kg), it is better to park the car with two laps to go than to get disqualified for using 100.5Kgs. Bizarre.

Be a classified finisher instead of DSQ you mean? Do the regs allow for that?

don't know, but I don't see it being different that last year then you could also have case of finishing the race with less than needed for the fuel sample or stopping with enough for the sample

The reason it's different is because of the likelihood of fewer than 10 people crossing the line, and hence actually gaining points for retiring, while not for running out of fuel.

[321apex]

Very few cars may be finishing the first races, potentially turning F1 into a mockery. All these cars are undeveloped prototypes wanting to grind to a halt at moments notice and in worst case catch on fire.

Safety car and FIRE TRUCKS will be busy. Is that what the TV viewer expects to see?

I don't want to sound alarmist, but we will also learn of relative safety of race cars containing 4MJ of energy going thru major crashes and how a driver is going to be rescued when the current conducting carbon fiber tub is perhaps LIVE with power.

[Lycoming]

I don't want to sound alarmist

No, you clearly do. Saying that changes nothing.

Very few cars may be finishing the first races, potentially turning F1 into a mockery.

1988 Australian Grand Prix had 11 classified and 7 finishers. 1995? 8 finishers. 2000? 9 finishers. Not having many finishers does not make a mockery of the race. Several races in a row where less than 1/3rd of the grid finishes the race distance, and then we may have a problem. But poor finishing rates have been a staple of F1 for a long time without it being a "mockery".

Safety car and FIRE TRUCKS will be busy. Is that what the TV viewer expects to see?

By the sounds of it, it's exactly what you expect to see.

we will also learn of relative safety of race cars containing 4MJ of energy going thru major crashes and how a driver is going to be rescued when the current conducting carbon fiber tub is perhaps LIVE with power.

First of all, after 3 years of KERS being in widespread use, this hasn't been an issue. There are procedures in place to deal with such situations. And cars in the past have contained far more than 4 MJ in their fuel cells.

[321apex]

we will also learn of relative safety of race cars containing 4MJ of energy going thru major crashes and how a driver is going to be rescued when the current conducting carbon fiber tub is perhaps LIVE with power.

First of all, after 3 years of KERS being in widespread use, this hasn't been an issue. There are procedures in place to deal with such situations. And cars in the past have contained far more than 4 MJ in their fuel cells.

You missed my point.
The fuel cell safety took many years if not decades to figure out to make it safe. However the 4MJ along with significant voltage on board is really very new.

Imagine a crash similar to Kubica in Montreal few years back, with car landing upside down. How can track workers help extricate the driver if ES system is damaged putting the whole car is under electricity? They can't see the indicator LEDs in roll hoop burried in mud.

The history shows that implementation of bold new technical inventions often proves to be unsafe and people get hurt. In this case, the whole F1 community was dumped in deep water and forbidden to properly develop their hardware in testing.

[beelsebob]

Very few cars may be finishing the first races, potentially turning F1 into a mockery. All these cars are undeveloped prototypes wanting to grind to a halt at moments notice and in worst case catch on fire.

Safety car and FIRE TRUCKS will be busy. Is that what the TV viewer expects to see?

I don't want to sound alarmist, but we will also learn of relative safety of race cars containing 4MJ of energy going thru major crashes and how a driver is going to be rescued when the current conducting carbon fiber tub is perhaps LIVE with power.

If you think very few cars finishing races makes F1 a mockery, you haven't watched F1 for more than a decade or two. F1 historically is an extremely high attrition sport, I see no issue with going back to that.