Are RedBull always first in line to Renault updates?

[lebesset]

on that basis , extrapolate to mercedes ; with the toto connection and a much smaller budget , williams should be OK , not quite championship winners ; but McLaren ? don't fancy their chances this year ...the honda deal looks a great move

[basti313]

it's not really the point
the reality is that any updates are always designed for the particular characteristics of the red bull tean , just as they were for renault before the team was sold ...everyone will get that

So, which problem today was caused by this?

sorry , don't understand the question

This thread started with something like "other Renault teams looked poor today because unfair Redbull team disadvantages them".
So how have they been disadvantaged today?

There is rumor-mongering elsewhere on the webs saying that Red Bull and Renault are in a big tiff over who owns the rights to the new software that Red Bull helped them write.

There is no evidence for that and the engines of the other teams run perfect when they don't kill them with non software related issues.
And as stated: FIA has clearly forbidden a custom mapping for RedBull half a year ago.

If the team redbull, require a mapping to improve its performance, and this change detrimental to other customers...request will be accepted. The focus is Redbull. it's complicated

With having the same PU, same exhaust, no blown diffusor...how can the performance be improved for one team?

[iotar__]

What do you think? Poor starving Red Bull once again disadvantaged by engine situation and preferential deal with
Renault. Can Briatore get a credit for their comeback?

No responsibly when something goes wrong, all the credit when it works. It's all about their heroic software work now on night shfts - makes you wonder why they didn't do it all earlier. Having twice as many people than midfield teams and budget three times bigger probably helped in their struggles.

[gandharva]

The "correct term": "exclusive contract"
The Renault can provide the same engine, but, some information or updates may be privileged to a given team.
if any team from the same supplier, find any solution to improve performance, this information may be first applied to team with an exclusive contract.
Everything depends on the contract.

This is not allowed by the rules. No matter which contract they have.

Afaik you are wrong. A few days ago I read a statement of Monisha Kaltenborn regarding Ferrari engines. She said that customers have some range of mappings they can choose from and also that Ferrari takes care about special wishes if it's possible to realize.

[iotar__]

This thread started with something like "other Renault teams looked poor today because unfair Redbull team disadvantages them".
So how have they been disadvantaged today?

There is no evidence for that and the engines of the other teams run perfect when they don't kill them with non software related issues.
And as stated: FIA has clearly forbidden a custom mapping for RedBull half a year ago.

With having the same PU, same exhaust, no blown diffusor...how can the performance be improved for one team?

I don't know, ask Marko what he meant (a bit out of context):
"Marko said Red Bull has been helping Renault to improve the troublesome engine software. "We have been working in shifts and are now reaping the first fruits," he revealed."

When they had problems it was manufacturer's fault but when they are fairly competitive again it's not about manufacturer solving but their work? So again why didn't they put the work earlier when it was all Renault's fault Red Bull now apparently solved. Maybe because they were working together, before as well as after the problems were discovered?

[DaveKillens]

Even though Renault are obligated to support each team as much as possible and resolve issues quickly, even they have limited resources. So they have to prioritize, and work through each problem one at a time in partnership with each team. So it comes down to priorities, and obviously the "works" team (as in the case of Ferrari and Mercedes too) do get to the front of the line. Is any specific issue is common to all, and does have a strong impact on reliability and performance, logic tells me that such an issue will get priority treatment.

But there are two sides to every story, and no doubt of all the Renault powered teams, Red Bull have the strongest engineering and upgrade team. As external observers it's almost impossible for us to know which team solves the issues, and how they are resolved. But I'm not surprised that Red Bull appear to be the first Renault powered team to show signs of reliability and pace.

[idfx]

questions:
All teams are required to use a software?
Can develop something with another code? Java, pythom, C, C # #, LUA, Delphi?

[beelsebob]

questions:
All teams are required to use a software?
Can develop something with another code? Java, pythom, C, C # #, LUA, Delphi?

o.O

[idfx]

questions:
All teams are required to use a software?
Can develop something with another code? Java, pythom, C, C # #, LUA, Delphi?

o.O

iotar wrote:
Marko said Red Bull has been helping Renault to improve the troublesome engine software."

[munudeges]

Maybe I'm late but something tells me that for 2014 RedBull have a preferential agreement with Renault in which Redbull get's all the updates first while the rest of the Renault engined teams have to wait in line. I know it may not be as unfair as it appears, as Redbull is the flag bearer for Renault engines, but If I were the other teams I would not be sitting so well with it.

Yes. Red Bull are the factory fecking Renault team and everyone knows that situation, as the Mercedes and Ferrari powered teams do respectively.

[basti313]

Even though Renault are obligated to support each team as much as possible and resolve issues quickly, even they have limited resources. So they have to prioritize, and work through each problem one at a time in partnership with each team. So it comes down to priorities, and obviously the "works" team (as in the case of Ferrari and Mercedes too) do get to the front of the line. Is any specific issue is common to all, and does have a strong impact on reliability and performance, logic tells me that such an issue will get priority treatment.

And now please explain how RedBull can have different problems with the PU than Lotus which you can solve by the software? They can only have different packing solutions, which can result in cooling problems, but you can not solve these by the software as you want everything running at 100% power.
The main problem is getting power in and out of the batteries and this is exactly the same for everyone.

When they had problems it was manufacturer's fault but when they are fairly competitive again it's not about manufacturer solving but their work? So again why didn't they put the work earlier when it was all Renault's fault Red Bull now apparently solved. Maybe because they were working together, before as well as after the problems were discovered?

This is a technical forum, not a conspiracy theory forum. So you should concentrate on technical facts and not bring every discussion down to a discussion about Horner or Marco's honesty...

[Cold Fussion]

Vettel's PU wasn't working properly today, so it isn't all roses for them.

[iotar__]

Wasn't it? It worked fine for Ricciardo. Makes you wonder who's responsible for Vettel's allegedly bad soft, since they didn't mention Renault I assume it was Red Bull Grey area for me, many team had problems in wet (Ferrari, Williams).

What exactly is questionable here: That RB has special deal with Renault, that they get preferential treatment? Not that anyone should care who's taking the blame-credit, it's RB - Renault problems.

Generic-possible answers for differences: it can be about limited resources at Viry, add lack of time and being behind on schedule and someone gets the short end of the stick. Engines might be the same in characteristics but not quality, especially with many different elements, ERSx2, new batteries, all the changes, add testing in a hurry etc. If it's about components working together widely understood support can also differ, include the software part and let's say best (or biggest number of) people solving one team's specific problems and you have varying results when solution are team specific or exclusive. No info but not impossible.

[Juzh]

Wasn't it? It worked fine for Ricciardo. Makes you wonder who's responsible for Vettel's allegedly bad soft, since they didn't mention Renault I assume it was Red Bull Grey area for me, many team had problems in wet (Ferrari, Williams).

No, it wasn't. Renault sport confirmed it and I'm inclined to believe them before some internet conspiracy nut case.

[basti313]

No info but not impossible.

We could also just call it flaming cause you don't like Redbull...

Wasn't it? It worked fine for Ricciardo. Makes you wonder who's responsible for Vettel's allegedly bad soft, since they didn't mention Renault I assume it was Red Bull Grey area for me, many team had problems in wet (Ferrari, Williams).

No, it wasn't. Renault sport confirmed it and I'm inclined to believe them before some internet conspiracy nut case.

He will read it, but he will ignore it.