Do we miss the good old BDG, M12 engines?

[kurtiejjj]

I was wondering lately because of the increasing interest in LMP3 why there doesn't seem much interest in new highly tuned Ford and BMW engines like the good old Ford BDGs, Harts and BMW M12 of the 70s.

I mean it's most probaply not going to be too hard to do that, you take a Ford duratec engine, modify the head. Lighter rods, pistons, valves other management unit bigger injectors etc. It must surely be possible to end up with a 9000RPM+ engine and at least 300 HP. There seem to be a few companies who already tune the duratec but there seems to be no company to go all the way. Where's all the technical challenge gone?

I'm sure it would make the baby LMPs much more interesting take them to a level at which these great little lola T290s, chevron etc. once performed? Maybe costs a bit more though .

What do you think?

[zac510]

I disagree - I think the Duratec is one of the most heavily modified engines in Europe by aftermarket companies. Have you looked at Cosworth, etc?

At the end of the day you still have a modified factory engine that has a heavy block, head casting limitations, etc. Even the old BMW 1.5 turbo engine was heavily modified, weight removed, new heads etc. While it may have been interesting it was comprehensively beaten by the TAG, Honda and other bespoke racing engines.

There are many more bespoke engines getting around particularly those V8s with motorbike heads which hold much more interest and power potential for the LMP3 blokes.

The problem with the powerful BMW engines is that they are straight 6s, which is OK for a road car but rubbish in a prototype or open wheel car.

[kurtiejjj]

I disagree - I think the Duratec is one of the most heavily modified engines in Europe by aftermarket companies. Have you looked at Cosworth, etc?

V8s with motorbike heads which hold much more interest and power potential for the LMP3 blokes.

The problem with the powerful BMW engines is that they are straight 6s, which is OK for a road car but rubbish in a prototype or open wheel car.

Indeed there are companies around but they don't seem to get above 280 BHP with their modified duratecs which is a lot but something which has been designed 25 years later than a BDG should be able to have 300HP.

As for the V8 bike engines, they're great I have a clip somewhere of the RST-V8 (designed also by a brother of F1 engine tinker Brian Hart) in a caterham. But they're really expensive, 22k pounds for an engine that gives around 350HP and it basically is bespoke so no cheap bike engine parts.

You're right about the 6 cylinders I don't understand why they use them so much in hill climbing, especially PRC, they seem so huge and heavy!

[zac510]

I'll bet the 280hp Duratec has a lot more torque and driveability than a 240hp BDG! Don't just consider the outright horsepower.

[kurtiejjj]

Don't dismiss the BDG they had more than 270 HP in the last version just look in Nick Mason's superb book 'into the red' at the lola Tsomething-or-other he owns and read the review by mark hales.

Maybe it's idiotic but I don't see the point of torques!

[zac510]

Then isn't that the exact point I was trying to make in my post?

That a bespoke aluminium block with aftermarket head in the form of the BDG is a better engine than a modified road car engine?

[kurtiejjj]

Hmm, it appears there is a misunderstanding here. I thought you meant with bespoke engines only the V8 bike engines. Ah well at least we agree on the fact BDGs are nice engines .

Seems to be a quiet topic this, no one fancy a discussion as well?

[zac510]

By bespoke I meant one custom built for the purpose and the purpose is racing, where the requirement is for high peak horsepower and 300 000km longevity is not required!

It's an interesting topic, but in the end it comes down to the two fundamentals of racecar engineering: money and the environment/parameters in which the engine will operate.