The Real Reason teams using v6 this year

[yener]

Well, here i go with my best (Dutch) English...

Lately there have been a lot of discussion about the smaller engines and more regulations. The FIA is changing rules year in year out. It's not only the engine, we have seen a lot of change in regulation within the aerodynamics, weight, gear ratio and more.

Now everybody asumes that the reason behind all those rules is to cut costs. So the teams should spend less money and the small teams will get a better chance. Another reason is to "save" the enviroment and lets make the F1 greener.

I personally believe that both of those reason i described above are bull****. The real reason IMHO are laptimes. lets take a look at Monza for instance:

1995 David Coulthard 1:24.462 v12 slicks
1998 Mika Hakinnen 1:25.139 v10 +grooved tyres + first corned chicane
2006 R. Barichello 1:21.046 v8 engine + lots of aero restrictions
2007 F.Alonso 1:21.997 v8 engine lots of aero restrictions
2010 F Alonso 1:21.962 v8 engine smaller tyres, aero districtions

Also dont forget we used to have a Quali engine, many more engines (no limit) no RPM limit and many more things which are restricted or forbidden these days.

The point i want to make is that when you take a look at the lap times in 1995 with a great engine and you look at the lap time in 2010 with smaller engines and a lot of restrictions, the lap times are still 2.5 seconds faster!
The FIA is trying to decrease the lap times, not for safety, money or enviroment reasons but they are trying to manage the lap times.
IMHO i believe that if they wouldnt have changed the rules since the 90's a lap at Monza would be done around 60 seconds. The F1 would be to fast to watch or at least it would get boring to watch it.

They should find another way instead of increase the engines volume and cilinders...

[thedutchguy]

Typo in the topic? Cars are running V6 engines this year...

Restrictions in power output, mechanical grip and aero have been made numerous times in the past decades, mostly to ensure cornering speeds don't get too high. It's a safety thing.

Your comparisons are nice, however the first and second chicane at Monza have been altered in 2000, so comparing lap times before and after that is quite pointless. Also, the 1:21.046 lap record wasn't set in 2006 using a V8, but in 2004 with a V10.

[ced381]

1995 David Coulthard 1:24.462 v12 slicks

Nope. Williams used Renault's V10.

2006 R. Barichello 1:21.046 v8 engine + lots of aero restrictions

What aero restrictions?!? And what!??!

2007 F.Alonso 1:21.997 v8 engine lots of aero restrictions

What aero restrictions?!?

They should find another way instead of increase the engines volume and cilinders...

They both decreased the number of cylinders and displacement (volume).

I think you're just making stuff up, while the rest has already been discussed in at least 10 other threads about the new engines, regulations, reasons why, etc.

[yener]

1995 David Coulthard 1:24.462 v12 slicks

Nope. Williams used Renault's V10.

2006 R. Barichello 1:21.046 v8 engine + lots of aero restrictions

What aero restrictions?!? And what!??!

2007 F.Alonso 1:21.997 v8 engine lots of aero restrictions

What aero restrictions?!?

They should find another way instead of increase the engines volume and cilinders...

They both decreased the number of cylinders and displacement (volume).

I think you're just making stuff up, while the rest has already been discussed in at least 10 other threads about the new engines, regulations, reasons why, etc.

Dude did you even watched f1 for the last years? I can't tell exactly what have been changed the last 10-15 years, but there has been a lot banned and a lot restrictions.

1996 Front wing end plates to be no more than 10 mm thick
1998 now running rubber with grooves
1999 Number of grooves on front tyres increased from three to four
2005 Rear diffuser size reduced to limit downforce
2007 rear wing structure strengthened to prevent flexing, increased strength required from rear crash structure
2008 strict limits placed on the amount of CFD and wind tunnel testing allowed each year
2009 Banning of almost all aerodynamic devices other than front and rear wing
2011 The double-diffuser concept is banned - The "F-duct" system pioneered by McLaren is banned - Adjustable front wings have also been banned

And these are only the small changes. I can go on forever.

[yener]

Typo in the topic? Cars are running V6 engines this year...

Restrictions in power output, mechanical grip and aero have been made numerous times in the past decades, mostly to ensure cornering speeds don't get too high. It's a safety thing.

Your comparisons are nice, however the first and second chicane at Monza have been altered in 2000, so comparing lap times before and after that is quite pointless. Also, the 1:21.046 lap record wasn't set in 2006 using a V8, but in 2004 with a V10.

You are right about the fastest lap, my fault. But still the fastest lap in 2006 was 1.21.484, thats only 4 tenths slower.

[Just_a_fan]

The FIA is trying to decrease the lap times, not for safety, money or enviroment reasons but they are trying to manage the lap times.

Actually, safety is exactly why they've been doing it.

Lap times decrease as a function of increasing cornering speeds. And as speed increases so does energy. Crashes tend to happen at changes of direction (corners) so if you reduce corner speeds then you reduce energy and hence the severity of the crash. The driver has a better chance of surviving.

The best way to reduce corner speeds is to reduce/limit downforce. And that's exactly what the rules have been about.

[Lycoming]

the only legitimate reason to reduce laptimes is safety, so it doesn't make sense to say they're trying to decrease laptimes instead of improving safety, because they're the same thing.

[Jersey Tom]

Eh.. I'd say at least part of the reason for relatively frequent rules changes is to shake up the order of the field - which is a great thing.

[DaveKillens]

I think we can all agree that because of these changes the lap times have been held down. It's a very simple cycle, the FIA chokes down the speed every few years, and the team continually find ways to go quicker.

But getting back to the OP's original reasoning, it is only because the FIA want to control lap times? Just that, power and control, without any other reasons? I wondered if it was some ploy by the FIA to exert more influence, but these changes started long before Max left the FIA.

I still maintain it is in the reasons of safety. One of the major regulation overhauls happened after Senna's death, when a whole slew of changes were made. And when you compare the lap times, they did slow the cars down. Qualifying at Brazil in 1994 was 1:15.962. In 1995 it was 1:20.081.

[Cold Fussion]

The real reason we are running v6's this year is because Ferrari veto'd the inline 4 rule.

[rich1701]

in 2001 the raised front wing and smaller rear wing regulations were intended by the FIA to slow the cars down. Unfortunately they ended up being 4 seconds a lap faster due to the tyre war.

But the FIA do not have a lap time target in mind when conceiving regulations. That makes no sense. They are more interested in limiting specifics like apex speed. And horsepower.

Coulthard had a v10 not a v12 in 1995.

The Monza configuration changed several times since 1995 so lap time comparison is flawed.

Melbourne would be a more reliable source for comparison.

[Just_a_fan]

Also, let's not forget that the teams decide the technical bits of the rules. The Technical Working Group puts forward ways of meeting the general requirement to limit lap times. The Technical Working Group is made up of representatives of the teams.

[ChrisM40]

I suppose it is about safety, but in my view the tracks should be the main focus for that rather than trying to slow the cars down ever more.

[Aesto]

Now everybody asumes that the reason behind all those rules is to cut costs.

Well this is embarassing. And here I thought engine costs had tripled since last year

Also: Your theory is that they decreased engine size to make laptimes slower. Your 'proof' is that the laptimes are slower.

By the same logic, I could say:

They decreased engine size to make Vettel unhappy. Proof: Vettel is unhappy.

...

[ESPImperium]

Monza 1995-1998:


Monza 2001-2006:

5.793 km (3.600 mi)

Monza 2007-present:

5.793 km (3.6 mi)

The first Variante has seen a lot of changes over the year as well as Della Roggia and Ascari, changes in radius and layout, especially at the first Variante where its gone from a double chichane with two iterations to the present right left single chichane with the present radius coming in in 2007, with Della Roggia also getting the sausage apex to stop drivers taking too much on the apex.

Monza has undergone major changes in layout and lots of little almost un-noticible changes, all designed to slow down the cars, however the calibre of driver and car has gone up so much that lots of the changes that the overall lap time has come down.

With Monza, you don't really notice lots of the nuances of the track until you go there. The fact that the cars break at 120m to the first Variante in Quali then in the race they brake at 150-160m on Lap 2 then on the final lap most are breaking at 90m for the top cars due to the rubber being down in the braking zone.

Monza is presently undergoing a 10 year re-surfacing as they are doing 570m approximately every year, 2012 saw the back straight from Ascari to Parabolica, last year was Paribolica, this year it will be down the main straight.

One last reason the lap times have came down is due to the fact that the apex speeds are up even though many cars have a lower downforce package these days, the cars have better downforce from 1995 to 2013 cars and also have better tech in the suspension tech and electronics packages now to manage everything.

No matter what a track designer or technical regulation can do, the are will always find a way to go faster due to technical minds and advances in technology and also a much higher calibre of driver as a whole than in 1995.