The new V6 Turbo engine sounds

[mistrx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srq14vtm-NE

Naaah, the sound doesn't have any effect on the perception of racing...afraid the poster was a bit optimistic for 2014 though?

"studio" recording you always give you a richer sound.. now difference from artist who sounded good on records but fail badly during stage performance.

Right, in reality you get this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-TcYg8yVTw

What engine is that? V2 turbocharged ERS ultragreen ultraquiet baby F1 version? Unfortunately that vacuum cleaner sound portrays the current situation pretty accurately...

I fancy rather these !

Proper 1000Hp turbo at the start; go through to the Mclaren to hear that great 3.5L V10 - which IMO sounds best!

[zeph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI

well there you have it.

though i still was quite fond of hearing individual v6 engines with all sorts of sounds, the actual race sounds are
indeed disappointing. i thought it was just tele, but this is horrible

the driving is spectacular. the sound? horrible.

I feel quite the opposite.

I have always loved F1, but as a musician I hate uncomfortable noise levels. It was the one thing I would have dreaded going to an actual F1 event. But now, I think I could tolerate the sound for the duration of the race.

And like I said earlier, the old V8's sounded like shrieking demons, the new PU's emit a low growl, that sounds much more menacing and authoritative, perhaps even masculine, if you will. You know, the big dude with the low, quiet voice, who doesn't even have to raise his voice to be heard.

And that sound when they brake is straight out of an SF movie! To me, the new PU's sound like hi-tech, whereas the old sounds invariably invoke images of a bygone era, like the sound of a steam whistle at the train station.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Yeah, watching a race without earplugs is comparable to eating petrol.... but the hypocrite is me....

Precisely. If you are going to hear airplanes taking off or most motor races and you don't want to wear earplugs, you are the one to blame and not the cars/planes. If you want to eat petrol and die, petrol is not to blame

I wonder how many racing tracks have you seen.....

All of them have big walls, but that has never blocked the sound. And when you buy a house near a track, you can accept some level of noise, but when F1 arrives and that noise level is multiplied by a factor of 3-4....

I have never counted, but to go as far as not having a number and being a car guy you can imagine it isn't just a few. Drove in quite some of them as well, fortunately

I can assure you 80% of them were so isolated from actual neighborhoods or cities that walls wouldn't be even needed for sound isolation. The few ones I know in actual urban areas have both big walls and big distances from the track to the walls as a safety/sound proofing measure. And I mean distances over 200 meters and up to 500 meters, it's a big separation. Some people I know live near one, F1 goes there and yes, people know they are running. It's not enough to be annoying even in the houses closest to the track

Plus, people want and expect F1 to be several times better (including in sound) compared to other races

What´s the reason for that noise level? None, nobody needs 140dB to enjoy racing... if earplugs reduce the sound you receive to 100dB, then they could be emitting 100dB directly and we all would enjoy the same sound without earplugs and without disturbing so much people

There´s no one single reason for that noise level, not even for noise freaks like yourself. You could be hearing the same sound without earplugs and everbody would be happy

The reason is the vibration and overwhelming effect described earlier in this topic. It was almost unique to F1 and to create it you do need something louder than the current ~130 dB. Noise is part of the experience and even with earplugs you can feel the vibrations. Currently, you can't really choose to have a nice racing experience because earplug or not you will not feel that, let alone hear it loud enough

And why do we need 130? Or 120? Or 100? 90 would be just loud enough to be heard by the expectators, it's about the same as a road car and a road car at max revs can be heard from up to 50 meters easily. I'm guessing at 90 dB other "noise freaks" representing maybe over 95% of the people who actually like racing would simply stop bothering watching F1 at tracks and maybe even at all

Precisely because it´s a technical forum I was thinking people would have a better understanding about what 140dB are, but you´re proving me wrong saying with earplugs everything is solved....

140dB is a complete atrocity, your hearing can be damaged even at a much lower noise level. I know people usually know nothing about sound and what dB means, but that is absurd. Ask your doctor next time you see him.


And yes, you can think what you want, but when I see something wich is harmful for an adult, then I instantly think about children. If an adult hearing will suffer, a child who is still growing will probably suffer some serious and permanent injury if he removes his earplugs at some point. Would you risk your son hearing assuming he will never remove his earplugs during the race? I know you hearing ignorant (sorry but it´s true, we all ignore more things that we know, and you´re an ignorant at this field) don´t understand what 140dB means, but you, being an adult, just need some seconds to suffer permanent injuries, so for a child who´s still growing this is a lot more critic, and he will probably remove his earplugs at some point if he´s not the most responsible child on planet earth.

I'm indeed quite sound ignorant. I know that anything over 90 dB is not very good for your ears and that anything over 120 dB is TECHNICALLY very loud. Plus I know that every 10 dB more is almost like doubling the volume. I don't have any idea about long term damage or things like that

What I do know is, the current 130/135 dB is enough to do damage just as well. People choose to watch it live and they know the consequences. Also, being motorsport, they may get harmed by flying parts or breathing fuel not approved to road use or even by seeing an accident. You take the necessary precautions (like earplugs) or you run the risks

Also, while 130 dB is very loud, there have been engines on the 150 scale and no one seemed to complain. I agree that over maybe 140 they are unnecessarily loud, but like it is this is just ridiculous. The thing is, the sound needs to reach at least the spectators with good volume. 130dB at 1 meter distance from the sound source is very loud, at 20 meters in open space it's nothing much. It's unacceptably low now

In addition, people choose to go to concerts and to night clubs where they are exposed to dBs well in excess of 100 for hours AND THEY ARE IN CLOSED SPACES. 100 dB measured in a night club is 100 dB, 100 dB at a car is not 100 dB 20 meters from it. Maybe it's not even 80 at an open space

About the f*cking kids, I would simply not take a child to a race track. It's too annoying for them to hang at the sun/rain in a crowd for hours and then there is the noise. Plus you have to take care of them and might not have a good time you were looking for. Race tracks are NOT environments to babies or kids or to people looking for absolutely harmless or riskless experiences

So yes, I treat people taking small kids and babies to race tracks like people who drink petrol and complain they are HARMED. Seriously, people nowadays have not common sense anymore. Kids are the perfect example, they think they have the right to take them ANYWHERE when in fact even if they were/are given the right THEY SHOULDN'T

Can you say radical? Green and quiet or noise to the unsafe limit.... Do you know there are a lot of intermediate points?

GP2 is not green and quiet but it´s not harmfull either, as it is MotoGP, Nascar, Indy, WRC... and basically most motorsports

Nobody said motorsports or F1 must be green and quiet, but if they´re not harmfull for their spectators that would be nice I think

Except that motorsports can't BY NATURE by really not harmful for anyone involved. You do the maximum possible and take the necessary measures (earplugs, fences, walls) but there is always some risk and some harm. Plus I can bet that hearing a GP2 at short distance is harmful as well

The agreeable intermediate point would be F1 being loud enough, which experience shows that around 140 dB would be this point

This kind of argument is like people who say petrol and chemicals are bad because if you eat them or rub them in your skin you may die/be harmed. WHO THE F*CK WILL DO THAT?

Funny you should ask, My family owned a paint and chemical manufacturing company and some idiot that worked there used to clean himself off using xylene or toluene etc.., long story short, I hear he doesn't travel to far from a dialysis machine.

As for the new turbo engine, I don't have a problem with the lack of sound coming from them, I don't remember them being all that loud back in the early part of the 80's, but then that was the sound of progress, no turbo, no win.
I think thats the big difference, back then it took more then 5 years to convert the grid over to turbos, so we eased into it so to speak.

Old turbos sounded better and were loud enough. That's why there are few complaints, plus you have a point with people having time to getting used to them

About the guy, I feel sorry for him, but I'm betting someone tried to make your family guilty, isn't it? It's the same kind of people who go to a racetrack and expect silence

Please stop doing blind statements. At 140dB you still need earplugs AND earmuffs to avoid hearing damage... Like people inside the pit do... How many spectators have you seen using earplugs and earmuffs?

I'm sorry, let's be clear. Your argument about health and safety is ridiculous, completely out of context and I'm ignoring it in my arguments. You talk like it's a noise you have no choice but to hear it, it's in a public place or something like that and it's not any of that. 140 dB is what has been shown to be loud enough for an F1 car to sound cool enough and loud enough for TV and spectators. I don't give a single f*ck if it's "harmful", especially since earplugs exist and spectators are at the very least 10 meters away from the cars (so not getting all that "loudness")

I guess you can understand now it isn't a blind statement

Anycase the measured dB Sulman quoted (thanks for the reminder) are close to the car. At the stands it´s not that high, but anycase the difference (145 vs 134dB) is a huge difference. At 145 you could be receiving more than 140dB wich is the upper limit when you´re wearing earplugs even at the stands, while 134dB is under this limit even close to the car, so the difference is huge.

I said 140 and not 145, as far as I know that's around 50% difference. That would make it "safe" when using earplugs, so just perfect. Plus, team personnel who are over that limit (if it is in fact true) must and do use earmuffs so I can't see that argument going anywhere (again). It's like complaining about manners in a hard core porn movie, seriously

You really don´t understand what 140dB is. Sound scale is not linear, each 6 dB increase means you´ve duplicated the volume. 120 is the limit (without earplugs) before suffering permanent damage even if it´s just for some seconds, so 126 is double the limit, 132 is 4 times the limit, 138 8 times, and 144dB is 16 times the upper limit to avoid hearing damage without earplugs.

Without earplugs, is much the same as without a condom. You know the risk. The current engines are over 120 dB and I know the scale is non linear

This means v8 sound, 145 dB, was almost twice the safe limit when you´re using earplugs As I said, an atrocity.

I hope you now understand how crazy is 140dB, it´s not something a bit too loud, it´s 16 times a bit too loud

BTW, if the problem would only be the noise, I would have introduced mufflers for the v8. They lower the noise level, but it could be as cool as the original sound, or even bettter

Yes, I know it was crazy. It shook walls and people can't talk with each other even screaming. It's good crazy though!

145 dB was probably just around the limit while using earplugs then, as an spectator would be as far as 50 meters away from the cars. But I agree, they were a tad too loud. 140 dB seems more and more like the best choice, not harmful if using earplugs and loud enough as a race car should be. I refuse to comment about mufflers on an F1 car. Rather discuss the possibility of using catalysts on them first

And like I said earlier, the old V8's sounded like shrieking demons, the new PU's emit a low growl, that sounds much more menacing and authoritative, perhaps even masculine, if you will. You know, the big dude with the low, quiet voice, who doesn't even have to raise his voice to be heard.

And that sound when they brake is straight out of an SF movie! To me, the new PU's sound like hi-tech, whereas the old sounds invariably invoke images of a bygone era, like the sound of a steam whistle at the train station.

I get the picture, but they sound not masculine or authoritative at all. The Mercedes Safety Car does that, the F1 now simply does vacuum cleaner sounds or trail bike sounds in lower revs. Not very masculine

Plus sounding like science fiction just goes to show that we are heading to a wrong place. F1 is catering for an audience who DOESN'T CARE about cars or racing. That kind of people like "science fiction" sounds more than engine sounds. This people will maybe watch the new "green, cool, futuristic and high-tech sounding" F1 for maybe a couple of races. It may change their image about the sport, now being a positive one in terms of bull sh*t (I mean, politically correctness, sorry) but they WON'T BRING CONSTANT AUDIENCE. In fact, after novelty wears of, It might not bring ANY audience

F1 needs to start learning to ignore interests and pressures completely unrelated to it and start better treating it's loyal fan base who actually likes cars and racing. For almost an entire decade now, F1 is worsening the show and the sport for those people

And I can't stand science fiction. TG I like racing! And I don't want it to be mixed with SF. Why the f*ck everything has to be thrown together nowadays!?

[Andres125sx]

You´re doing so many blind statements I don´t have the time to reply all of them, but it looks like in your opinion heroine, crack, opium, etc. must be legal because even when they all are harmful it´s your choice to use it or not... and young people or just ignorant people must NOT be protected because they should know it and if they don´t it´s only their problem....

Luckily you don´t put the rules....

[Andres125sx]

I'm indeed quite sound ignorant....

What I do know is, the current 130/135 dB is enough to do damage just as well.

If you recognice you´re a sound ignorant, please don´t try to say us what´s enough and what is not...

And no, it´s not enought to damage just as well, it´s around HALF the noise of v8 sound, so maybe it may harm you too, but nothing seriuous at least comparing it with the 145dB of the v8

Day and night, one can harm you even with earplugs, while the other can´t, a huge difference

In addition, people choose to go to concerts and to night clubs where they are exposed to dBs well in excess of 100 for hours AND THEY ARE IN CLOSED SPACES. 100 dB measured in a night club is 100 dB, 100 dB at a car is not 100 dB 20 meters from it. Maybe it's not even 80 at an open space

Please stop doing blind suppositions, I´ve already explained you enough to make you understand 100dB is not harmful, not even without earplugs, while 140db is harmful even with earplugs, but you insist doing blind statements like if you´d be a sound expert when you´ve admitted you know nothing about sound....

About the f*cking kids, I would simply not take a child to a race track. It's too annoying for them to hang at the sun/rain in a crowd for hours and then there is the noise. Plus you have to take care of them and might not have a good time you were looking for. Race tracks are NOT environments to babies or kids or to people looking for absolutely harmless or riskless experiences

So yes, I treat people taking small kids and babies to race tracks like people who drink petrol and complain they are HARMED. Seriously, people nowadays have not common sense anymore. Kids are the perfect example, they think they have the right to take them ANYWHERE when in fact even if they were/are given the right THEY SHOULDN'T

OMG, so now F1 is an sport just for adults....

Luckily my parents disagree with you and I watched my first F1 GP when I was a child and F1 came to madrid (Jarama 78)


Seriously, you should stop here

[Andres125sx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI

well there you have it.

though i still was quite fond of hearing individual v6 engines with all sorts of sounds, the actual race sounds are
indeed disappointing. i thought it was just tele, but this is horrible

the driving is spectacular. the sound? horrible.

I feel quite the opposite.

I have always loved F1, but as a musician I hate uncomfortable noise levels. It was the one thing I would have dreaded going to an actual F1 event.

Be carefull, with that statement some people could suggest your brain doesn´t work as it should....

[CHT]

I kind of agree with him.

The normally private Mateschitz added that he is somewhat frustrated by the FIA's decision to take the sport into a greener, quieter era with the focus on more efficient V6 engines.

"Formula One should be again what it always has been: the ultimate discipline," the 69-year-old added.

"It is not there to set new records in fuel consumption, or so you can talk at a whisper during a race and the greatest thrill is the squealing of the tyres.

"I consider it equally absurd that we are going a second slower than last year and that the junior series GP2 is almost as fast as formula one with a fraction of the budget.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

If you recognice you´re a sound ignorant, please don´t try to say us what´s enough and what is not...

And no, it´s not enought to damage just as well, it´s around HALF the noise of v8 sound, so maybe it may harm you too, but nothing seriuous at least comparing it with the 145dB of the v8

Therefore I was right. No need to be a specialist in sound to know both are harmful anyway

Please stop doing blind suppositions, I´ve already explained you enough to make you understand 100dB is not harmful, not even without earplugs, while 140db is harmful even with earplugs, but you insist doing blind statements like if you´d be a sound expert when you´ve admitted you know nothing about sound....

100 dB is widely recognized as being harmful, just read it anywere. Most electronics that emit sound come with a 85/90 dB limiter for that reason. I'm NOT a sound specialist, but I guess I can read

Plus not knowing 100 dB is harmful makes you sound like you don't know what are you talking about. I'm not pretending anything

The 140 dB figure is simply the middle ground between now (too quiet) and V8 (too loud, 145-150 dB). I'm not the one pulling arguments wildly out of context

OMG, so now F1 is an sport just for adults....

Luckily my parents disagree with you and I watched my first F1 GP when I was a child and F1 came to madrid (Jarama 78)


Seriously, you should stop here

Yes, it is for adults, it's obvious. Kids can't even understand it. And that was bad parenting

You´re doing so many blind statements I don´t have the time to reply all of them, but it looks like in your opinion heroine, crack, opium, etc. must be legal because even when they all are harmful it´s your choice to use it or not... and young people or just ignorant people must NOT be protected because they should know it and if they don´t it´s only their problem....

Luckily you don´t put the rules....

Yes, yuo should simply NOT use harmful stuff. Drugs are different because they eventually interfere in the public domain. Races are not public and you can choose to protect yourself by not going to them or using proper equipment (earplugs and earmuffs)

People like you support stupid regulation that eventually forbid everything. Again, race fuel is harmful as well. Let's forbid races "to protect the ignorants"!

[Richard]

The argument is well and truly lost when "stupid", "ignorant" and CAPITALS are used.

Time for a reset.