Ferrari: where is the Ron Dennis character?

[donskar]

In the Schumacher era, it was almost the holy trinity: Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn, Jean Todt. AND Rory Byrne, and Gilles Simon.
Now with Red Bull, you also have a 'holy trinity': Sebastian Vettel, Christian Horner, Adrian Newey.
Even going back, Ron Dennis' character has always been much stronger in the paddock when he had at least one strong character besides him.
Even with a strong figure like Colin Chapman, his biggest presence was when he had a star driver that he was in touch with, like Jim Clark.

I can't quite put my finger on it why, but Stefano and Fernando don't make that strong imposing presence with just the two of them. I think it doesn't help that Stefano seems more of an 'underling' to Luca than the golden trio ever did, and with Luca hardly ever being on track (or if he is, not very visible) it seems more like a hobby club that is controlled by corporate. Take away Newey and pre-2012 Vettel, and Mateschitz being as vocal as di Montezemolo, and you'd have the same situation at Red Bull.

The Dream Team was even stronger and deeper than you point out.

[Gerhard Berger]

*Martinelli instead of Simon.

[bhall]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

[SidSidney]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

Nice to see a quoted story from Tom Rubython.... Not many people know this, but I was the guy who first brought Tom (and his editor Peter Kirwan) into motorsport, back in 1993 when he was running Business Age magazine in London and didn't know anything about motorsport. I did a sponsorship deal with Tom that ultimately went to PSR. Tom then graduated to Sunday Business and ultimately annoying Bernie Ecclestone et al with BusinessF1. Good old days, but not the most reliable source.

[mika vs michael]

I may go a little bit off-topic but a couple of things have to be said since this topic took such historic turn. I do not know if the story happened the way the very long story says...but most of the Ferrari or F1 fans have the impression that Michael Schumacher did not want to really retire back then.
I think Montezemolo tried to assign Italian people to key roles in the team. It was Todt, Byrne, Brawn and MS with all the staff of course that led that team to the most successful period of its history. For a reason -I do not know if politics is involved or what else- Montezemolo tried to break that unity.
It seemed like he wanted to force them out. Another scenario may say that it was Michael Schumacher who wanted to retire, JEan Todt to go for FIA president and Ross Brawn to go back to the UK that forced Montezemolo follow that route.
I think that the team is paying most of all the departure of Ross Brawn. I think the most prudent thing was to promote him to F1 Team principal after the departure of Jean Todt.

Ferrari is paying that mistake now. In a way, although I have been a Ferrari fan since the Prost days, I kind of enjoy it because they deserve to be where they are the way they treated Michael Schumacher and Ross Brawn. I feel sorry for Alonso though. Alonso is the closest thing to Michael Schumacher we have in the grid since 2006 and Ferrari is very fortunate to have him in a way but the team apart from Alonso looks a bit like the 1990-1995 years...It looks like the Prost days.

The team needs a leader. Ross Brawn could be the solution and maybe if Alonso leaves next year, getting Vettel on board will be the only way to get back to winning days.

and something last. When your strong point is building a reliable but slow car, then you tend to say stuff like "reliability is the most important thing etc... When you build fast cars even if they are a bit unreliable then you sing a different song. The history proved that it's easier to find reliability than speed through a season...and that a slow car no matter how reliable it is never won a championship.

[Sebp]

...but most of the Ferrari or F1 fans have the impression that Michael Schumacher did not want to really retire back then.

If this isn't from "How to be an internet troll, Vol.1", I don't know what is.

[SidSidney]

The mainstream press have started pointing fingers, using specific dates as a frame of reference and words like "blame":-

Ferrari are struggling to make it a three-horse race

Ferrari are not on the pace, but in truth they have not been since 2008. In 2010, Fernando Alonso took it to the final race thanks to some bouts of unreliability for Red Bull, but they were not the class of the field.

And history seems to be repeating itself once again this year. The team now have one of the strongest if not the strongest driving pairing on the grid, with Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen, so it’s difficult to blame them for the team's struggles.

We know Alonso went sniffing around for another drive last year, and more negative noises have been coming out of the Spaniard so far this season. He labelled the first part of his race in Sepang a “nightmare”, adding that he “felt slow all race”. Oh dear. This is not what we expect of Ferrari.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... -wins.html

[xpensive]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

I'd like to see Montezuma himself back in the pits, worked like a charm 40 years ago and he's only 66, just like Ron Dennis.

[diffuser]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

I'd like to see Montezuma himself back in the pits, worked like a charm 40 years ago and he's only 66, just like Ron Dennis.

We could say that Whitmarsh helped design the car and basically the car they released in the first race was more or less his car. The changes that they have made since are Dennis's. An argument could be made that the car has gone backwards this week.


I'm not sure what to make of the whole Montezemolo and Domenicali. They seem to be just figure heads (putting an Italian face on the Ferrari) while the under pinnings (Fry/Allison) are where all the work gets done. So really the cars performance is there responsibility. M and D are just PR guys.

Anyways that's my take on it. I could be wrong.

[SidSidney]

Yes, Ferrari are a bit down just now. But at the same time, they were enormously up for a very long time. It's not unreasonable for them to not win for a considerable amount of time. Don't worry, they'll be back on top at some point. Even Williams is showing you can make your come back.

I take your point about cyclicality, and I think that has a lot of truth to it for the top flight teams. Often one team or another dominates for several seasons, before a regulation change mixes it up again. I've been watching F1 for about 35 years and that is as true today as it was in the 1970s.

But even if they are not winning outright Ferrari need to be doing better than some of the company they are keeping over the past couple of seasons (e.g. Lotus and Force India in 2013, now Williams and Force India in 2014) given the huge resources, acknowledged special treatment (Ferrari Spa is enshrined in the FIA WMSC as a "Member by Right") and outstanding drivers available to them.

If you have arguably the best/most experienced drivers on the grid, but still finish down the road, the back office has to be examined for weakness. Stefano has had occasional purges of technical staff to protect himself, but he's running out of excuses. And at some point Luca di Montezemolo's judgement comes into question as well; I imagine he will have to take some action to protect himself from criticism and ultimately removal, and the glaringly obvious move is to replace the team leader.

Here's a quotation from yesterday's national press:

Ferrari principal Domenicali demands improvement as his team make it 16 races without a win

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has demanded an improvement in all areas if the famous marque is to compete for this season's Formula One world championship.

It is now 16 races since Ferrari last won a grand prix, their worst run for 18 years, and there is no obvious sign the drought will come to an end any time soon. Despite the new regulations changes for this campaign, Ferrari again find themselves playing catch up to their main rivals.

'So what I have asked of my engineers is to put in place a plan to close the gap that we can see so far because it is pretty clear," said Domenicali. 'I don't want to point fingers at any of our engineers, or anyone in our group because it is not correct, although for sure we need to get rid of the errors. Power delivery, traction, efficiency of the car, set-up, balance, we need to improve at all levels. That's what I can see.'

Power, traction, efficiency, set-up, balance - if you have that many issues I suspect it's not an engineering problem, and I also suspect many people connected intimately to Ferrari are saying the same thing. Some might also say they need to demand an improvement in the team management. If I was Luca I would be lining up candidates for interview, because if the first half of the season continues like this, he will be under intense pressure to do something significant by the time the circus hits Europe.

What price Briatore at Ferrari?

[zeph]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Thanks for the link, that story rings true.

So not only did Montezemolo force the most successful team in F1 history out of Ferrari, as a direct result the FIA boss (Todt) is now possibly an enemy, or at the very least not inclined to do them favors. And Brawn began building the team that is now Mercedes GP.

And he gained what? A 2007 WDC/WCC, and 2008 WCC.

[xpensive]

Never underestimate Montezuma's might and contacts, remember he single-handed organized the world cup in 1990.

The man is an Italian aristocrat with relations of the deepest kind, he even contemplated entering politics in the 90s.

[Vasconia]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Thanks for the link, that story rings true.

So not only did Montezemolo force the most successful team in F1 history out of Ferrari, as a direct result the FIA boss (Todt) is now possibly an enemy, or at the very least not inclined to do them favors. And Brawn began building the team that is now Mercedes GP.

And he gained what? A 2007 WDC/WCC, and 2008 WCC.

Both championships were a result of the work done in 2006, when rules changed and they started from zero we all know what has happened.

[Gerhard Berger]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Thanks for the link, that story rings true.

So not only did Montezemolo force the most successful team in F1 history out of Ferrari, as a direct result the FIA boss (Todt) is now possibly an enemy, or at the very least not inclined to do them favors. And Brawn began building the team that is now Mercedes GP.

And he gained what? A 2007 WDC/WCC, and 2008 WCC.

Both championships were a result of the work done in 2006, when rules changed and they started from zero we all know what has happened.

I actually imagine they would have won both championships in 2007 and 2008 with Schumacher/Massa pairing, so the gain was effectively nothing.

2009 car was the first car designed under Domenicali's lead.

[zeph]

I'll just link to this very long story about, in part, how Domenicali came to control the Scuderia.

He's essentially just Montezemolo's proxy. So, I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Thanks for the link, that story rings true.

So not only did Montezemolo force the most successful team in F1 history out of Ferrari, as a direct result the FIA boss (Todt) is now possibly an enemy, or at the very least not inclined to do them favors. And Brawn began building the team that is now Mercedes GP.

And he gained what? A 2007 WDC/WCC, and 2008 WCC.

Both championships were a result of the work done in 2006, when rules changed and they started from zero we all know what has happened.

Yes, of course. That was actually my point.

Ego, pride, and hubris. Montezemolo may be an astute political operator, but it would seem that he put self-interest (i.e. curtailing Todt's power and influence within Ferrari) before that of the organization.

I suppose he can't be fired as the buck stops on his desk, but if I were on the FIAT board I'd be calling for his resignation.

To sum it up:
- ousts Schumacher + team for Raikkonen
- dumps Raikkonen for Alonso, but remains obligated to continue to pay Raikkonen...for not racing
- worries about Alonso's commitment and hires back the same Raikkonen

I'm pretty sure other executives have been fired for far less.