Is team order tactics such as McLarens acceptable in 2007?

[Torso]

In the 2 first races of 2007 McLaren has without any doubt proved they run a team order system for this season.

It is historically wise to support a double WDC over a rookie for sure, but are these tactics really acceptable in 2007?

The rules clearly says team orders are illegal or do they...?

[zac510]

Please do not respond to this thread. The poster is a troll.

[Torso]

Please do not respond to this thread. The poster is a troll.

What is a "troll"?

Is it the name of the "surface to air gremlins" that held Hamilton back 2,5 mysteriours seconds in his second pit in Australia

or

is it the "slow down gremlins" that mysteriously left Hamiltons McLaren once Alonso had almost a full pit-stops advantage over the Ferraris?

[Sawtooth-spike]

This is what a troll is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

This is a Stupid topic by the way.

[Steven]

Sorry but what does this poll have to do with your question?
You ask whether we agree McLaren use team orders, while on the other hand your polls questions if team orders are ok.

Btw, I don't agree with team orders and I don't agree that McLaren is using them so far. Alonso is the champion and may have chosen to make his final stop later than his teammate at Australia. Secondly, at Malaysia both drivers did their very best and finished the best positions their could, without interference of their teammate (they hardly noticed each other in the race).

[Torso]

so far the poll shows that team orders are acceptable in 2007

that is interesting..

[Torso]

Sorry but what does this poll have to do with your question?
You ask whether we agree McLaren use team orders, while on the other hand your polls questions if team orders are ok.

Btw, I don't agree with team orders and I don't agree that McLaren is using them so far. Alonso is the champion and may have chosen to make his final stop later than his teammate at Australia. Secondly, at Malaysia both drivers did their very best and finished the best positions their could, without interference of their teammate (they hardly noticed each other in the race).

when the media and f1 in general are discusssing McLarens tactics then what is "trollish" about having the same discussion in an f1 forum?

it`s ok to prefer if noone mentioned the obvious.. so that McLaren and Alonso fans can enjoy their "version" of reality unrivaled..

yet I think it`s a good thing both to use team orders AND discuss in the aftermath wether they where actually necessary or not

obviously Alonso wouldn`t be leading the WDC right now if Hamilton wasn`t held back in Australia...

meaning so far McLaren tactics have proved necessary

[joseff]

Let's see Malaysia 2007. We'll examine the places where McLaren could have effected team orders.

The race:

On lap 17, Massa pitted first (slower ferrari always pits first), while Raikkonen and Alonso went in on lap 18, at least 1 lap behind schedule (as seen from frantic pitboard operation). At this point, Alonso was 17 secs ahead of Hamilton. Hamilton went in on lap 20, presumably on schedule. Carrying 3 extra laps' worth of fuel easily explains why Hamilton is slower than the Ferraris. Battling with the Ferraris should've slowed him down even more. So I don't see foul play before the first stop.

Coming out of his first stop, lewis was 11 secs behind fernando thanks to his later stop, and began catching him. Clearly his strategy was working. So no evidence of team orders here either.

After the last stop, Hamilton was going to put on harder compound tyres. The LAST thing McLaren wants is to delay him in the pits and hand 2nd place to Raikkonen. So, it's illogical to propose team orders here.

Starting strategy:

Suppose Hamilton, starting from 4th, is to block Raikkonen, starting 3rd. Logically McLaren would have given him the lighter car to overtake into the first corner. They didn't. Instead he was the heavier of the two McLarens. This is also inconsistent with blocking tactics.

Massa, carrying the least fuel of the top 4, fumbled his start. Ultimately he's responsible for the drop to 3rd, not McLaren team orders.

Please, present your own analysis of the race and maybe we'll stop seeing you as a troll.

[Sawtooth-spike]

There are Been Team orders for as long as there has been teams. But i think in this case you are seeing something that is not really there.

[manchild]

In the 2 first races of 2007 McLaren has without any doubt proved they run a team order system for this season.

That is just your opinion. Politically correct poll question should say: "do you agree that In the 2 first races of 2007 McLaren used team orders".

The way poll looks now it is identical to Venom's Massa is idiot 1.Yes 2.Yes with big difference that Venom was making a sarcastic joke while you're trying to impose your opinion as the indisputable fact on which we should vote.

[Torso]

In the 2 first races of 2007 McLaren has without any doubt proved they run a team order system for this season.

That is just your opinion. Politically correct poll question should say: "do you agree that In the 2 first races of 2007 McLaren used team orders".

The way poll looks now it is identical to Venom's Massa is idiot 1.Yes 2.Yes with big difference that Venom was making a sarcastic joke while you're trying to impose your opinion as the indisputable fact on which we should vote.

Australia:
Hamilton`s last pit-stop takes 2,5 secs more than the fuelload he received should require.

Malaysia:
Hamilton is considerably slower than Alonso while holding up the Ferrari`s. Alonso builds a comfortable lead and then Hamiltons McLaren suddenly is the fastest car on track.

I am not saying team order tactics to support 1 driver over the other is wrong, I am just asking if it`s accetable under the 2007 rules as they stand.

And lookig at the current result of the poll people seem to think it is.

Anyway if I`m a "Troll" for ackowledging these events then so be it. I ca`t stop from picking it up simply because u don`t like the topic. Maybe u should ask youreselves if it`s not more "Trollish" to ignore that McLaren has given no reasonable explanations for any of this.

Where I really wanna go with this is that the FIA may be wise to remove the team order rule all together with their upcoming banning of TC..

Cause police the team order rule the FIA clearly cannot (or will not) do.

[West]

This thread gives me aneurysms.

Please close all further threads similar to this.

[Tom]

I thought you meant a troll also I just fond out that norway had a car called a troll, I wonder if it sold?

[joseff]

You do know where and how SAABs are built, don't you?

[Tom]

I thought SAAB were Swedish? or is this outsourcing Scandinavian style?