Punishments

[ScottB]

So, last time out, Ricciardo got a stop go, and a 10 place grid drop for his unsafe release in Malayasia.

In Bahrain, Maldonado manages to flip another car and gets a 5 place drop as punishment.


Are these punishment levels preordained in the rules, or just bizarrely inconsistent stewarding?

[BlackSwan]

Also the 2 penalty point on driver license for Magnussen are ridicoulus, due to the contact with Rai, considering "only" 3 point for Maldonado madness...

[bhall]

Following a string of questionable incidents, Yuji Ide finally had his super license revoked by the FIA after he caused a similar accident in 2006. I guess Maldonado brings in too much money to suffer the same fate.





Imola, 2006


Bahrain, 2014

[stefan_]

We must admit though that the incident with Maldonado ended that way because he hit Guttierez in the wheel making Guttierez's wheel "climb" the wheel of the Lotus and thus making him take off - it's not like he hit him at 150 km/h and threw him away.

But then again, it's easy to say "Maldonado is an idiot, ban him" only considering his past events. He makes bad decisions, yes, but this time I think he actually was unlucky.

[bhall]

[...]
He makes bad decisions, yes, but this time I think he actually was unlucky.

I would maybe agree with that if it even so much as appeared Maldonado was hard on the brakes to avoid Gutierrez. He just plowed right into him, though.

[stefan_]

[...]
He makes bad decisions, yes, but this time I think he actually was unlucky.

I would maybe agree with that if it even so much as appeared Maldonado was hard on the brakes to avoid Gutierrez. He just plowed right into him, though.

That's also true. If the hit was 5-10 cm more forward or backward he would have spun Guttierez around... just on the vertical axe.

[iotar__]

I see what you mean, punishing Maldonado twice is against racing principles. 10s stop and go was enough for this. His fault but it was fairly normal incident, Guttierez was slow and his line was weird, he went up, so what? So did Webber in Valencia (no penalty surprisingly), Trulli had one in Monaco and Schumacher in Abu Dhabi I think.

Magnussen had two and a half incident in three races and no one is branding him menace to society, don't do that to Maldonado until he deserves it just because media tools are repeating it constantly. Going back to general topic of penalties - Magnussen and Bianchi in Malaysia are still silly and controversial.

Ricciardo's penalty on the other hand was clear, indisputable and simple decision stupidly branded "harsh" for no reason other than Red Bull not accepting any blame or penalty ever, under no circumstances, and people repeating it mindlessly.

[iotar__]

Following a string of questionable incidents, Yuji Ide finally had his super license revoked by the FIA after he caused a similar accident in 2006. I guess Maldonado brings in too much money to suffer the same fate.

http://i.imgur.com/SEI15PI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ka3jAFy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dXH0z1A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iH09i48.jpg
Imola, 2006

http://i.imgur.com/LlyaoTA.gif
Bahrain, 2014

Unrelated history, how the hell Hamilton survived 2011 then? It was so common they even stopped giving him penalties for blatant fouls like crashing into Kobayashi in Spa.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Maldonado was never going to make that corner. Gutierrez would have had to have gone off track to avoid that dive bomb.

On punishments, why don't we ever see drivers black flagged? In my opinion, this is better than giving a driver a penalty for the next race. Ricciardo was unfairly punished in Bahrain for an incident that took place in Malaysia. I think it would have be fairer if he had simply been black flagged at Malaysia, where they could have drawn a line under the incident.

Also, for those of you that weren't aware, Maldonado also has history outside of F1 for dangerous incidents, and escaping the penalties due to his links to wealth:-

He also entered nine races (and made seven starts) in the Spanish-based World Series by Renault, with a best finish of seventh. However, his participation in the WSR was marred by a four-race ban for dangerous driving. He failed to slow down at the scene of an accident at Monaco, despite the presence of warning flags, and struck and seriously injured a marshal, for which he got a life-time ban at Monaco.

That lifetime ban at Monaco was 'overturned' when his father intervened and paid the injured marshal a large sum of money.

[WALL_ZACK]

Maldonardo's driving just looked amateurish at that point, not at all like a driver with a few years under his belt. It also had a much greater potential to cause serious injury. By comparison, Ricciardo's incident was a small stuff up that didn't come close to the same level of seriousness (in this instance), yet his penalty was so much more severe.

I know that unsafe releases can be serious (the cameraman last year), but I see up-ending another driver by going for an overtake that was never on no matter which way you slice it as worth a bigger cut over the knuckles than a loose wheel nut

[basti313]

Following a string of questionable incidents, Yuji Ide finally had his super license revoked by the FIA after he caused a similar accident in 2006. I guess Maldonado brings in too much money to suffer the same fate.

I think this was not similar. Ide had no chance to get the corner without contact. He just went straight into the opponent and has proven before, that he is not really capable of driving a F1 car. Here we can at least talk a bit about some misunderstanding about each others line...

But then again, it's easy to say "Maldonado is an idiot, ban him" only considering his past events. He makes bad decisions, yes, but this time I think he actually was unlucky.

I do not think, that this situation was any different to his usual faults. He just completely lacks the sense for which gap is good and which gap is bad and the sense of the line the opponent will be driving.
A lot of drivers had this problem (Vettel, Hamilton, Grosjean...), but everyone solved it more or less after one bad year. For Maldonado there is just no development visible, it just worsens...

I see what you mean, punishing Maldonado twice is against racing principles. 10s stop and go was enough for this. His fault but it was fairly normal incident, Guttierez was slow and his line was weird, he went up, so what? So did Webber in Valencia (no penalty surprisingly), Trulli had one in Monaco and Schumacher in Abu Dhabi I think.

No, it is completely usual that after being completely responsible for taking out an opponent results in a penalty for the next race. And I do not see why anything should be against racing principles...it would be against the racing principles if you just have to keep your car going until the steward hand you a stop-and-go to avoid a penalty for the next race after taking out an opponent.

Magnussen had two and a half incident in three races and no one is branding him menace to society, don't do that to Maldonado until he deserves it just because media tools are repeating it constantly. Going back to general topic of penalties - Magnussen and Bianchi in Malaysia are still silly and controversial.

Do not miss, that Maldonado has a long history of really crazy crashes.

Ricciardo's penalty on the other hand was clear, indisputable and simple decision stupidly branded "harsh" for no reason other than Red Bull not accepting any blame or penalty ever, under no circumstances, and people repeating it mindlessly.

You really should stop talking about Redbull. Your posts are so nice to read if they are not about RB, but if you have the chance to mention RB it always gets crazy.

Maldonado was never going to make that corner. Gutierrez would have had to have gone off track to avoid that dive bomb.

I do not think that he would have missed the corner. Yes, Maldonados line was much too aggressive, he would have needed the apex on the exit, but this is the same aggressive driving Hamilton used to fight against Rosberg. I think Maldonado just missed Gutierrez. You can take this line if your car is ahead and the opponent can see you like Ham did, but if you are behind, it is completely crazy to take this line because it will end up in a crash.

[bhall]

Unrelated history, how the hell Hamilton survived 2011 then? It was so common they even stopped giving him penalties for blatant fouls like crashing into Kobayashi in Spa.

It's probably down to politics. Had Maldonado come out of the gate as a rookie with a successful team and contended for a Championship, like Hamilton, I'm sure folk's perception of him would be a lot different than it is now.

Instead, he's pretty much known as the king of the pay drivers who's displayed a reckless and piss-poor attitude toward both other drivers and his former team. That's not exactly a formula for sympathy in the eyes of fans or stewards.

I think he could learn a great deal from his current teammate, a man who, over the last season-plus, has largely rehabilitated the image he cultivated in his first two years as a careless driver prone to odd mistakes.

[rssh]

I don't think Pastor deserved the 5 place grid drop it was a racing incident and probably more of Gutierrez's fault/misjudgement. Pastor would have made the apex in a month of Sundays easily but Gutierrez crowded him to the apex which IMO was not needed ; he should have left him space and taken a wider turn in. See Schumi vs Alonso 06 Bahrain for example ; the one difference was Alonso was half a car ahead at the apex but here Gutierrez was half car ahead but it still means that space should have been left.

Just because the crash looks dramatic doesn't mean that Pastor should have been punished . Its the same as Schumi and Petrov incident in 2011 Valencia, even here Schumi blamed cold tyres.

[Powershift]

Does anyone remember a similer incident to this accident back when the Japan GP was in Fuji, and Massa was coming out of the pits and hit Bordais, and they actually penalized Bordais, saying that cars coming out of the pits had "the right of way"

[Tim.Wright]

Usually I don't join in on discussions on sporting incidents...

But honestly, anyone who (in one of the most unsorted cars on the track currently) attempts an outbraking manouver from so far behind into turn 1 directly from the pitlane on cold tyres needs a talking to. Regardless of his history and whether Esteban rolled or not - it was a seriously brain dead move.

This rule about leaving a gap is not helping either. It has spawned a culture of overtaking based on putting your nose half a meter alongside the leading car and then relying on the rule which mandate the leading car must leave the door open.

In every other race series in the world, contact between the front tyre of a chasing car against the rear tyre of the leading car is always the fault of the chasing car.