WEC (World Endurance Championship) 2014

[wesley123]

snip

God I hate equivalency rules.

sure, but those rules are the only reasons there is more than one engine type participating in the same class
and probably also that there are new manufacturers

On the other hand, why trying to make the best possible car when it gets equalized anyways? I understand that Audi gets less fuel for example, but to then after the first test change this to benefit others is just stupid and a complete waste of (in this case) Audi's time and money.

[Cold Fussion]

sure, but those rules are the only reasons there is more than one engine type participating in the same class
and probably also that there are new manufacturers

On the other hand, why trying to make the best possible car when it gets equalized anyways? I understand that Audi gets less fuel for example, but to then after the first test change this to benefit others is just stupid and a complete waste of (in this case) Audi's time and money.

I agree, doing it after the first test is just silly. I think the worse is what you see in GT racing, where it seems the equivalency is adjusted on a race by race basis, turning the competition into who can win by smallest possible margin. If you have an open ruleset, then you should not get punished for producing the best car. i think one of the worst examples I remember were the HPD lmp2 cars a couple years ago getting restricted so much the engine effectively stopped working properly.

[aleks_ader]

On the other hand, why trying to make the best possible car when it gets equalized anyways? I understand that Audi gets less fuel for example, but to then after the first test change this to benefit others is just stupid and a complete waste of (in this case) Audi's time and money.

Don't think is was a waste of time.

Because:

1. All team know the balancing rules before they goes designing this year cars powertrain

2. Reliability is still the biggest issue and object of deep research, worth for further implementation in road car industry

3. Accordingly point 1 they "should" adapt their marketing, technology research for own benefit in mass production. So they spend that amount of money witch is relevant to satisfies company long or short term goals in power-train development. That series just serves as test bed for individually company to prove its "supremacy" of its technology. e.g. Audi = quattro, 2000+ bar DI techology - already in use in commercial cars, Porsche = new line of "super" efficient downsize boxer engines and prove of hybrid tech aka. model 918, Toyota = hybrid Prius, maybe supercaps prospect etc.

4. AERO is still one the biggest differentiator

5. It is only reasonably way to get more manufactures/semi-manufactures in motor-sport. I don't think AUDI interests will be stay in WEC as they don't had decent rivals to challenge. Also it works vice versa. Only solution is somehow tight the grid together. And compare F1 those ACO/FIA rules works perfectly. I really admire the whole idea to bring more "innovation" and "diversity" into the high competitive sport.

[wesley123]

On the other hand, why trying to make the best possible car when it gets equalized anyways? I understand that Audi gets less fuel for example, but to then after the first test change this to benefit others is just stupid and a complete waste of (in this case) Audi's time and money.

Don't think is was a waste of time.

Because:

1. All team know the balancing rules before they goes designing this year cars powertrain

No they don't, because just now the balance was changed. Porsche and Toyota now get more power compared to what was decided earlier and Audi less. The balancing rules were changed after everyone had their cars running already.

Balancing rules are released before the start of the season. and now, after apparently it became clear Audi still is fastest they decided to alter these rules to benefit the others. Everything that Audi has done to become the fastest has went down the drain.

[stefan_]

The new Rebellion R-One hits the track for the first time at Paul Ricard.

[aleks_ader]

Thaks Stefan, more "taxt" info about Oreca&Rebellion testing of new Rebellion R-One LM P1 car

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/print.php?sid=248529

and here in "official" statement from team website
http://rebellion-racing.com/news140328.html

[Huntresa]

Whats the goal/aim for building this LMP1 för Oreca and for Rebellion to race it ? I mean they will never beat a factory team in Le Mans or the WEC as a whole.

Cause there isnt any private LMP1 seperate cup is there ? Or is there and i have totally missed it ?

[TzeiTzei]

Whats the goal/aim for building this LMP1 för Oreca and for Rebellion to race it ? I mean they will never beat a factory team in Le Mans or the WEC as a whole.

Cause there isnt any private LMP1 seperate cup is there ? Or is there and i have totally missed it ?

There is the LMP1-L class. No hybrids there and only privateers allowed

[Pierce89]

On the other hand, why trying to make the best possible car when it gets equalized anyways? I understand that Audi gets less fuel for example, but to then after the first test change this to benefit others is just stupid and a complete waste of (in this case) Audi's time and money.

Don't think is was a waste of time.

Because:

1. All team know the balancing rules before they goes designing this year cars powertrain

No they don't, because just now the balance was changed. Porsche and Toyota now get more power compared to what was decided earlier and Audi less. The balancing rules were changed after everyone had their cars running already.

Balancing rules are released before the start of the season. and now, after apparently it became clear Audi still is fastest they decided to alter these rules to benefit the others. Everything that Audi has done to become the fastest has went down the drain.

It wasn't stupid and its not balance of performance on the cars. They're trying to equalize energy available because diesel has a higher energy content than gasoline.

AFAIK the fia/aco are trying to balance energy rather than performance.

[langwadt]

Don't think is was a waste of time.

Because:

1. All team know the balancing rules before they goes designing this year cars powertrain

No they don't, because just now the balance was changed. Porsche and Toyota now get more power compared to what was decided earlier and Audi less. The balancing rules were changed after everyone had their cars running already.

Balancing rules are released before the start of the season. and now, after apparently it became clear Audi still is fastest they decided to alter these rules to benefit the others. Everything that Audi has done to become the fastest has went down the drain.

It wasn't stupid and its not balance of performance on the cars. They're trying to equalize energy available because diesel has a higher energy content than gasoline.

AFAIK the fia/aco are trying to balance energy rather than performance.

They do try to balance performance, which I think is the only option of you want to have so very different powertrains competing in the same class

If you look at the regulations the Diesels get ~5% less _energy_ per lap than the gasolines

[machin]

If you look at the regulations the Diesels get ~5% less _energy_ per lap than the gasolines

The Diesels get a fuel per lap allowance that has a calorific value 6% less (not 5%) than the petrols. However the reason is that according to the specific fuel consumption figures provided by the manufacturers*, Audi's Diesel engine is 6% more efficient (6% higher BHP per hour per MJ of fuel calorific content burnt) than the better of Porsche/Toyota's engines, i.e. the best Diesel and the Best Petrol engined cars will have the same mechanical energy per lap (note distinction between mechanical energy and the calorific content of the fuel).

i.e. The cars are balanced to achieve equal mechanical energy, not calorific content of the fuel burnt and not lap time.

Now, whether you agree that balancing mechanical energy output is "fair" is an entirely different question...

(* if any manufacturer exceeds their declared specific fuel consumption figure (kg per BHP per hour) they will be penalised.)

[wesley123]

It wasn't stupid and its not balance of performance on the cars. They're trying to equalize energy available because diesel has a higher energy content than gasoline.

AFAIK the fia/aco are trying to balance energy rather than performance.

I don't mind them balancing the efficiency. however, changing this after everyone is done and teams have built their cars is a bit stupid imo. Cars are built towards a certain BoP and now due to this change some will benefit from this change, in this case Toyota and Porsche.

Imo they shouldn't have changed it right before the season starts, they have released te BoP a while ago already, and in my opinion should have stuck with it.

[langwadt]

It wasn't stupid and its not balance of performance on the cars. They're trying to equalize energy available because diesel has a higher energy content than gasoline.

AFAIK the fia/aco are trying to balance energy rather than performance.

I don't mind them balancing the efficiency. however, changing this after everyone is done and teams have built their cars is a bit stupid imo. Cars are built towards a certain BoP and now due to this change some will benefit from this change, in this case Toyota and Porsche.

Imo they shouldn't have changed it right before the season starts, they have released te BoP a while ago already, and in my opinion should have stuck with it.

but when it turns out they didn't get balancing right before the start of the season, they have to change it or Toyota and Porsche might as well stay home

[Cold Fussion]

It wasn't stupid and its not balance of performance on the cars. They're trying to equalize energy available because diesel has a higher energy content than gasoline.

AFAIK the fia/aco are trying to balance energy rather than performance.

I don't mind them balancing the efficiency. however, changing this after everyone is done and teams have built their cars is a bit stupid imo. Cars are built towards a certain BoP and now due to this change some will benefit from this change, in this case Toyota and Porsche.

Imo they shouldn't have changed it right before the season starts, they have released te BoP a while ago already, and in my opinion should have stuck with it.

but when it turns out they didn't get balancing right before the start of the season, they have to change it or Toyota and Porsche might as well stay home

Does it though? How much is half of kilo of fuel really worth? I'd be surprised if it was to make up for any aero deficiencies.

[machin]

I'd be surprised if it was to make up for any aero deficiencies.

it is not supposed to make up for aero deficiencies... only to balance mechanical energy output....

...and it was made clear in December that final balancing would be made at the start of season... (see document 13-D0031-LMP1.