Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

[Pumaracing]

In another thread, there are some Cosworth simulations published which are showing this behaviour.

Which is this thread please and I'll have a look. Hollus has also mentioned it but I can't find it.

[hollus]

Here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 42#p478542

And this is the most relevant picture:

[Pumaracing]

Hmmm. Far be it for me to argue with such as the mighty Cosworth but if these engines really did have peak power at 11,500 or higher they sure as eggs are eggs wouldn't be changing gear until 13k to 13.5k.

I think I'm quite happy with my analysis so far based on a peak of 10,500 rpm and the actual gearings, and differences between team's gearings, are explaining the gear change points very well other than perhaps Force India but who knows what they're up to. Maybe they haven't sussed something out yet.

[hollus]

Found a video with Force India's 1st gear, Perez in Bahrain. Thanks go to Emerson.F. The fit gives a ratio of 14.636. I also added more data to 2nd and 7th gear with this video from Bahrain, but with minimal changes to the results.
The combined graph has to be updated, but I'll wait until I can (hopefully) get the missing 8th gears from China.

Only Caterham is missing to get all 11 teams on. There is a video of Ericsson, but it is a split screen onboard with a resolution of 240 pixels, so it is impossible to read the numbers.
Is there really no Caterham fan (or Ericsson fan or Kobayashi fan) willing to contribute some numbers?

[thedutchguy]

Just watched some onboard footage from FP2 and even on the long straights in China, Mercedes doesn't use 8th gear. At the end of the back straight, Rosberg hit 329 kph @ 11642 rpm in 7th gear.

PS: The onboard graphics finally have the 8th gear indicator working. About time.

[hollus]

Thanks, damn...
What about Force India? If you can get me a single RPM Km/h pair under acceleration, I'll get it in the graphs.

[lebesset]

thoes who are following this will probably find today' s team principals conference interesting due to the participants...no team principals !

[mathbriere27]

Thanks, damn...
What about Force India? If you can get me a single RPM Km/h pair under acceleration, I'll get it in the graphs.

Hülkenberg : 316 kph @ 11,186 RPM in 7th gear, from China P1
Pérez : 323 kph @ 11,443 RPM in 7th gear, from China P2

So yeh, I'm so glad to have found this and Blanchimont's threads, as I'm trying to simulate 2014 physics/torque/power values in Grand Prix 4. I made a basic gear set after watching a lap with Magnussen in Melbourne. But I actually didn't notice the disparity between each car.

I got torque values from the 1987 Honda V6, which I copied into the game and then I set my gearing accordingly. My power peak is right between 10,000 and 10,500 RPM, nearing 490 lb-ft. And 418 lb-ft at 12,500 RPM.

The game is limited to 7 gears, so I'm actually using 2nd to 8th gears. Here is a video sample :
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfo-q8wbe4[/youtube]
Remember, gearing is actually based on Magnussen's.

I'm not sure about the validity of my gear set and my torque curve, but I know I'm somewhere inbetween realistic and plausible. What do you guys think ? Oh and, of course, if this post doesn't belong to this thread please move it wherever it belongs to

[hollus]

Thanks for the data. Unfortunately it is 8th gear that I am missing, and those datapoints correspond to 7th gear, but they extended it by a fair range, which is nice, with the ratio fit changing by about 0.1%
I added them to my current graph anyways! And I am so happy that people find the data useful.

Cool with the game, but it might need some adjustment, everybody is expecting 340-350Km/h at Spa. Also, if you are going to use only 7 gears, I think the Toro Rosso values (second set with corrected colors) is a better fit, as it has a shorter second and a slightly longer 8th.

[beelsebob]

I suspect Merc are gearing long not because of top speeds, but because of wheel spin. If you gear long, you make the car less likely to spin its wheels in the lower gears. It may be entirely about drivability.

[hollus]

Are we going down the torque road again? Power = torque * rpm. Relating to wheelspin, this applies at the wheels. For a certain car speed, the wheel rpm is what it is, independently of the gear selected. And with a constant(ish) engine power curve, the torque at the wheels is going to be about the same, no matter the gear that happens to fit.

[Edited: the initial example with a Mercedes in 3rd and a Ferrari in 4th was wrong, I must have gone color blind because it is the 4th gear in the Mercedes that is similar to 4th in Ferrari. New, better example follows]
But anyways, just to make it clearer a Mercedes at 90 Km/h in 1st gear is as likely to spin the wheels as a Red Bull at 90Km/h in 2nd gear (both will have similar rpm and hence similar torque, both at the engine and at the wheels. But really, it is only at the wheels that it matters. (the ratios are 13.6 and 13.5, the gear names do not matter).

The only effect of all this in drivability is the number of gear shifts needed and the possibility of controlling wheelspin at a critical speed by dropping the fuel allowance and hence the power at full throttle by revving below 10500 rpm.

Sadly, one thing I learnt while making this thread is that the actual gear ratios are relatively unimportant, with the notable exceptions of 1st and 8th gear and how far you need to take your rpms before shifting (I think, discuss!). But in any case, the name of the gear selected should have no effect at all!

[beelsebob]

Are we going down the torque road again? Power = torque * rpm. Relating to wheelspin, this applies at the wheels. For a certain car speed, the wheel rpm is what it is, independently of the gear selected. And with a constant(ish) engine power curve, the torque at the wheels is going to be about the same, no matter the gear that happens to fit.
But anyways, just to make it clearer a Mercedes at 150 Km/h in 3th gear is as likely to spin the wheels as a Ferrari at 150Km/h in 4th gear (both will have similar rpm and hence similar torque, both at the engine and at the wheels). But really, it is only at the wheels that it matters.

This is clear and unadulterated bullshit. If this was true, the cars would have only one gear (because you would get the same at the wheel torque in 8th gear as in 1st, and therefore be able to pull away in 8th).

[bhall]

Because a gearbox multiplies torque by the same proportion in which it reduces rotation, wheel torque progressively decreases as the ratios grow longer with every upshift. Think of it as trading torque for speed in order to maintain the same power throughout.

In any case, that means a longer ratio 1st gear will indeed result in less wheel torque compared to an alternate, shorter ratio 1st gear affixed to the same engine.

[beelsebob]

Because a gearbox multiplies torque by the same proportion in which it reduces rotation, wheel torque progressively decreases as the ratios grow longer with every upshift. Think of it as trading torque for speed in order to maintain the same power throughout.

In any case, that means a longer ratio 1st gear will indeed result in less wheel torque compared to an alternate, shorter ratio 1st gear affixed to the same engine.

That was exactly my point.

Most teams are struggling with the amount of torque... How do you reduce the amount of torque? That's easy - gear longer. Hollus seems to believe that that won't actually do anything useful though.

[Cold Fussion]

Because a gearbox multiplies torque by the same proportion in which it reduces rotation, wheel torque progressively decreases as the ratios grow longer with every upshift. Think of it as trading torque for speed in order to maintain the same power throughout.

In any case, that means a longer ratio 1st gear will indeed result in less wheel torque compared to an alternate, shorter ratio 1st gear affixed to the same engine.

That was exactly my point.

Most teams are struggling with the amount of torque... How do you reduce the amount of torque? That's easy - gear longer. Hollus seems to believe that that won't actually do anything useful though.

It isn't engine torque, it is engine power. If your engine is spinning at 10,500 rpm, it makes no difference to the torque at the wheels, only the speed at which they're going. The only reason they run 8 gears is because of the regulations, if you took that away, they'd probably run at most 6 gears.