I Don't Buy Into All These Excuses

[Ultra_Tech]

@Ultra_tech: I agree over the line (I'm a Hamilton fan, but I do believe at some points during his career there was too much hype), but I couldn't help noticing you didn't judge Alonso. Is this you 'hyping' Alonso without saying it, or just forgetting about him?

And what about Rosberg? I feel he's actually being underrated. People always said Hamilton would destroy him, yet he makes Hamilton's life very difficult at times.

I did Judge Alonso.

The notion the he "beat" Michael Schumacher in 2005 is ludicrous, schumacher wasn't even a contender in 2005, so he was definitely overhyped as some kind of "Schumacher Destroyer" in 2005/2006, that's my opinion on that, always thought Schumacher was faster for raw pace.

Thing about Alonso is, the man has been BURIED by the british press, who painted him as the villain in 2007. I cannot think of a single driver since Schuey who has been buried more, I don't think you can call Alonso over-hyped really, if anything, I would say OUTSIDE THE PADDOCK, Alonso is actually underrated. He makes cars look better than they actually are and teammates look abysmal for the most part (apart from Hamilton, who in my view is just as good as alonso for the most part). But if people think Alonso is overrated like Vettel and Raikonnen are thats up to them.

[Waywardism]

The Renault faster then the Ferrari....And yet Alonso finished 0.2 seconds behind Petrov........during FP2,3 and Quali Alonso was then both Renault and in the race it was faster then the Ferrari sounds like an excuse to me. Please read the name of the topic you created please "I Don't Buy Into All These Excuses". I certainly don't buy yours m8.

Can't tell if trolling. The renault was faster on the straights. (Which made it hard for anyone to get within range to make a pass in the breaking zones)

[Ultra_Tech]

Not a contradiction. Vettel was in Newey car fact, but some RB's were better (more dominant) then others, fact. In 2010 Alonso was behind a Renault not a Newey car, fact. Alonso was in the faster Ferrari, fact. If you can't overtake a driver when you WC is depending on it in a faster car. Then i can't consider you better then a bloke who did that same thing in 2008 in brazil on the last lap passed Glock for the title, fact.

You failed here again

In Abu Dhabi the renualt was faster on the straights than the Ferrari, infact, Lewis Hamilton spent a HUGE part of the race unable to overtake the renault of Robert Kubica........despite having the overall faster car......because the Renaults were so fast on the straights.



Does this mean Hamilton is a failure too? Or is it down to car characteristics?

Another thing people seem to forget is that even it Alonso passed Petrov, he stil l would NOT have won the title, he needed to pass a number of cars in front including rosberg I believe, but again, Petrov on the straights was untouchable, Alonso could hardly even put a move on him.

But people ignore the key points.....and go for HYPE

"Alonso is crap, couldnt even pass petrov to win the title"

The Renault faster then the Ferrari....And yet Alonso finished 0.2 seconds behind Petrov........during FP2,3 and Quali Alonso was faster then both Renault and in the race it was faster then the Ferrari sounds like an excuse to me. Please read the name of the topic you created "I Don't Buy Into All These Excuses". I certainly don't buy yours m8.

Lewis Hamilton was stuck behind Robert Kubica's Renault for a huge part of the same race for the same reason Alonso was stuck behind petrov.

Renault was better on the straights, overtaking was too hard. I believe they introduced DRS after this race to stop these kinds of things happening in future races.

Not excuses, just telling you what actually happened in the race, not the fanboy version which is

"Alonzo iz rubbizsh , culdant eeveen parse Petrav In Da Fassta Car!!!!!!!!!"

[turbof1]

Thing about Alonso is, the man has been BURIED by the british press, who painted him as the villain in 2007. I cannot think of a single driver since Schuey who has been buried more, I don't think you can call Alonso over-hyped really, if anything, I would say OUTSIDE THE PADDOCK, Alonso is actually underrated. He makes cars look better than they actually are and teammates look abysmal for the most part (apart from Hamilton, who in my view is just as good as alonso for the most part). But if people think Alonso is overrated like Vettel and Raikonnen are thats up to them.

Here I don't agree. While he might have had the british press against him, every other press actually worshipped him. Spanish press in front. Outside the UK he's overhyped to the bone.

I also don't get the ussual "Alonso alone makes 6 tenths" "he makes the car better then it is" etc. It's nonsence.

Alonso is along the best on the grid, but he too is made better then he really is. In general, too much value is eventually placed on the driver, and too less on the car.

Also again (and this is to everyone), let's make this subject a bit more touchy:
Was Ayrton Senna overhyped? With all due respect, what happened to him was tragic, but did his death contributed to the legend media made of him? Like artists being so famous after their passing away?

[Ultra_Tech]

I'd like to move away from Hamilton and Alonso, obviously the Hamilton fans are boyant at the moment now that their man has a red bull like advantage over the other cars, they were a bit quieter in the previous years before that, but fair play to em.

Getting back to Raikonnen, If I may.....

No jokes, I read this on PlanetF1 forum, and this is kind of hype I am talking about re: Kimi Raikonnen.

Where is the evidence to support this.

Kimi is a far superior driver to Alonso. In other thread I posted the top 3 would be Kimi, Hamilton and Vettel.

But Alonso is very good in getting 100% from the team. Kimi obviously much faster driver but he has always been in and out driver. If you know Kimi by his Mclaren-Mercedes days you will know what I am talking about. Kimi hates simulators and is considered lazy driver but he was looked very well during that time by Ron Dennis and the team. Although Ron was behaving like his dad and controlled Kimi in many things. So although their relationship was not great on track it was fantastic. Very unfortunate that Kimi lost championship by 2 points in 2003 with Ferrari and William BMW having superior cars. In 2005 with the reliability, bad luck as well. But those were his best days by far. Kimi was basically in and out of the car driver without having to work hard with the car or tyres. I remember in one of interview a person asked about the problem and Kimi casually replied I do not know go and ask the engineer In Ferrari he enjoyed lot of freedom and was allowed to do whatever he wants. He also got tatooed immediately when he went to Ferrari but racing wise he got much worst. Jean todt was a good manager so I guess he helped him but otherwise he was never able to get the car working.

In Ferrari Kimi is made look slower and the team works around Alonso. As a race driver he is faster than Alonso even today but he needs to get the car working for him. This weekend he said he had no pace and it was horrible. I really hope Kimi can work hard with his engineers and analysis this issue and how to overcome it. Today he was almost 1sec a lap slower than his team mate. He is yet to have a nice race but this was such a torture. Having said that the season is long and neither are going to be near Mercedes AMG drivers so Kimi can take Alonso in the second half of the championship.

[turbof1]

I feel Kimi isn't the same driver as before. Nowadays he's a bad driver. It used to be different. Back in 2005, he had that race where he was last at one point and overtook fisichella in the final lap for the win. Granted that he had a superior car, but even given that it was a mighty drive. And in that period he often did similar things.

Nowadays you can just tell he isn't interested in it anymore to give it all. He just drives around, without soul.

[Powershift]

How many times must it be said? Comparing points is "pointless" without context, Hamilton is behind on points right now, has Rosberg outdriven him?

I don't care what the points tally was in 2011, Hamilton destroyed Button the whole time he was there, it was not even close, if you can't see that take your eyes off the points tally and watch the damn races.

Yes Alonso and Hamilton were tied on points but Hamilton was clearly better, Alonso crashed in Fuji while way behind Hamilton, Hamilton went off track in China while way ahead of Alonso(McLaren clearly waited way too long to pit Hamilton and paid for it), apart from those 2 occurrences the only reason why the points were equal was because of a broken wheel for Hamilton during qual in Nurburgring and his car fault in Brasil. So yes for those who watch the races Hamilton "destroyed" Alonso as much as any rookie has ever done to 2xWDC, but not nearly as badly as he utterly destroyed Button.

And No 2007 was not his best year, Hamilton has driven at nearly the same level as 2007 with varying levels of luck and McLaren incompetence.

[Ultra_Tech]

Here I don't agree. While he might have had the british press against him, every other press actually worshipped him. Spanish press in front. Outside the UK he's overhyped to the bone.

I also don't get the ussual "Alonso alone makes 6 tenths" "he makes the car better then it is" etc. It's nonsence.

Alonso is along the best on the grid, but he too is made better then he really is. In general, too much value is eventually placed on the driver, and too less on the car.

Also again (and this is to everyone), let's make this subject a bit more touchy:
Was Ayrton Senna overhyped? With all due respect, what happened to him was tragic, but did his death contributed to the legend media made of him? Like artists being so famous after their passing away?

Last one on Alonso Hamilton and then that's it.

In my opinion, Alonso is not overhyped right now.

I would say this with Great confidence.

If you gave each team principal a championship winning car and said to them.

"Pick the driver who you think will guarantee you a WDC in this car".

The vast majority would pick Alonso. End of story.

Look at the recent votes by drivers and team principles on who they think is the best in the sport, Alonso won 2/4 years without even winning a title despite Vettel having a rocketship in each of those years.

I think that speaks more volumes than general chit-chat on forums, my opinion.

Anyways, moving onto Vettel and Raikonnen if possible.

[kooleracer]

The Renault faster then the Ferrari....And yet Alonso finished 0.2 seconds behind Petrov........during FP2,3 and Quali Alonso was then both Renault and in the race it was faster then the Ferrari sounds like an excuse to me. Please read the name of the topic you created please "I Don't Buy Into All These Excuses". I certainly don't buy yours m8.

Can't tell if trolling. The renault was faster on the straights. (Which made it hard for anyone to get within range to make a pass in the breaking zones)

Ultra_tech:
Lewis Hamilton was stuck behind Robert Kubica's Renault for a huge part of the same race for the same reason Alonso was stuck behind petrov.

Renault was better on the straights, overtaking was too hard. I believe they introduced DRS after this race to stop these kinds of things happening in future races.

Not excuses, just telling you what actually happened in the race, not the fanboy version which is

"Alonzo iz rubbizsh , culdant eeveen parse Petrav In Da Fassta Car!!!!!!!!!"

So in F1 you can only pass a car that is slower then you in the straights? Is that what you are both saying? Have you never watched Schumacher or Hamilton pass people in braking zones? Come on now, people lets have an serious discussion.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

Please point out were the Renault was faster! Actual facts! ( looking forward to your next reply)

[turbof1]

Here I don't agree. While he might have had the british press against him, every other press actually worshipped him. Spanish press in front. Outside the UK he's overhyped to the bone.

I also don't get the ussual "Alonso alone makes 6 tenths" "he makes the car better then it is" etc. It's nonsence.

Alonso is along the best on the grid, but he too is made better then he really is. In general, too much value is eventually placed on the driver, and too less on the car.

Also again (and this is to everyone), let's make this subject a bit more touchy:
Was Ayrton Senna overhyped? With all due respect, what happened to him was tragic, but did his death contributed to the legend media made of him? Like artists being so famous after their passing away?

Last one on Alonso Hamilton and then that's it.

In my opinion, Alonso is not overhyped right now.

I would say this with Great confidence.

If you gave each team principal a championship winning car and said to them.

"Pick the driver who you think will guarantee you a WDC in this car".

The vast majority would pick Alonso. End of story.

Look at the recent votes by drivers and team principles on who they think is the best in the sport, Alonso won 2/4 years without even winning a title despite Vettel having a rocketship in each of those years.

I think that speaks more volumes than general chit-chat on forums, my opinion.

Anyways, moving onto Vettel and Raikonnen if possible.

I'm only focussing on Alonso. I already long agreed Hamilton is at times overhyped. I simply am not convinced; you are trying to say every driver is overhyped, which is a truth, except Alonso. Forgive me for saying this, but that's a classic example of fanboyism. Hence my example of ayrton senna: most people wouldn't dare to say this, but ALL champions are in this regard overhyped, even Senna.

The vast majority would pick Alonso. End of story.

I don't agree. Chances are the choices of the team principals are wide spread.

[Ultra_Tech]

I feel Kimi isn't the same driver as before. Nowadays he's a bad driver. It used to be different. Back in 2005, he had that race where he was last at one point and overtook fisichella in the final lap for the win. Granted that he had a superior car, but even given that it was a mighty drive. And in that period he often did similar things.

Nowadays you can just tell he isn't interested in it anymore to give it all. He just drives around, without soul.

Hmmmm.

I can see a pattern here. Alonso beats a driver, suddenly they are "Not the same since *Insert year/injury*

Last season Raikonnen was rated as a top 4 driver and the media were praising his performances and consistency at Lotus.

Then they said he would give Alonso "Hamilton like" issues at Ferrari and run him off to another team once he beats him.

And now Alonso is just being Alonso, dragging cars into positions they have no right to be in, and suddenly Raikonnen is a past it driver.

Hmmmmmm

[turbof1]

I feel Kimi isn't the same driver as before. Nowadays he's a bad driver. It used to be different. Back in 2005, he had that race where he was last at one point and overtook fisichella in the final lap for the win. Granted that he had a superior car, but even given that it was a mighty drive. And in that period he often did similar things.

Nowadays you can just tell he isn't interested in it anymore to give it all. He just drives around, without soul.

Hmmmm.

I can see a pattern here. Alonso beats a driver, suddenly they are "Not the same since *Insert year/injury*

Last season Raikonnen was rated as a top 4 driver and the media were praising his performances and consistency at Lotus.

Then they said he would give Alonso "Hamilton like" issues at Ferrari and run him off to another team once he beats him.

And now Alonso is just being Alonso, dragging cars into positions they have no right to be in, and suddenly Raikonnen is a past it driver.

Hmmmmmm

There's no pattern. Raikkonen slipped back. This was obvious from 2008 onwards. His wins at Lotus weren't special either: the one at Abu Dhabi was because the car in front of him broke down, and the one in Australia was simply because the lotus was the most gentle on the tyres. Purely looking at his mentality, his driving, and putting the hyping aside, he slipped back. His glory days were at mclaren.

[Ultra_Tech]

I feel Kimi isn't the same driver as before. Nowadays he's a bad driver. It used to be different. Back in 2005, he had that race where he was last at one point and overtook fisichella in the final lap for the win. Granted that he had a superior car, but even given that it was a mighty drive. And in that period he often did similar things.

Nowadays you can just tell he isn't interested in it anymore to give it all. He just drives around, without soul.

Hmmmm.

I can see a pattern here. Alonso beats a driver, suddenly they are "Not the same since *Insert year/injury*

Last season Raikonnen was rated as a top 4 driver and the media were praising his performances and consistency at Lotus.

Then they said he would give Alonso "Hamilton like" issues at Ferrari and run him off to another team once he beats him.

And now Alonso is just being Alonso, dragging cars into positions they have no right to be in, and suddenly Raikonnen is a past it driver.

Hmmmmmm

There's no pattern. Raikkonen slipped back. This was obvious from 2008 onwards. His wins at Lotus weren't special either: the one at Abu Dhabi was because the car in front of him broke down, and the one in Australia was simply because the lotus was the most gentle on the tyres. Purely looking at his mentality, his driving, and putting the hyping aside, he slipped back. His glory days were at mclaren.

Bit too convenient for me in my opinion, that as soon as another driver, in this case massa starts matching Raikonnen, then it's because Raikonnen is past it, Massa wasnt that far behind him from the get go 2007 included when Raikonnen won the world title after massa moved over to allow him to take the title.

What have people seen from Kimi Raikonnen's career that they feel he is in the Alonso, Schumacher level order of driving? That's what I am getting at in general,what has he done to warrant this hype, because other than nearly winning a WDC in a rocketship in 2005, i personally can't remember seeing anything from him that warrants him being placed on such a pedestal.

[kooleracer]

Like I thought when facts shows that Renault was slower then the Ferrari which had the highest top-speed i get no reply......hahahah Ultra_tech & Waywardism got to love you guys.... So did I lie or was I "trolling" or are you just blinded by your Alonso favoritism?

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

[Ultra_Tech]

Like I thought when facts shows that Renault was slower then the Ferrari which had the highest top-speed i get no reply......hahahah Ultra_tech & Waywardism got to love you guys.... So did I lie or was I "trolling" or are you just blinded by your Alonso favoritism?

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

You get no reply because you are talking absolute utter tripe.

In Abu Dhabi 2010, Hamilton was stuck behind the renault of Kubica because the renualt was too fast on the straights to over-take, the same reasons Alonso could not pass Petrov.

Simple and plain as that.