I Don't Buy Into All These Excuses

[ringo]

As for Hamilton Alonso.
I don't think you can make excuses for Alonso losing to a rookie. So it's quite ironic from the thread starter.
I say this because if you put all the rookie vs experience driver matchups since hamilton, none of them has come close to even worrying their teammate.
So for Hamilton to beat Alonso is not something to be overlooked. Alonso got beaten, just how he has beaten all of his teammates.
OP started of well, as i agree with his position on Kimi, who was also convincingly beaten by grosjean the last part of 2013.

However i know if Alonso is paired with Hamilton again, he wont beat him. Hamilton is a much better driver than 2007.
And i say that for every year he's competed, including 2011. Alonso has my respect as equal best driver, but for different qualities. But there's nothing to suggest he's improved and another driver hasn't.
Someday they'll be teammates again i'd imagine.

[Waywardism]

So in F1 you can only pass a car that is slower then you in the straights? Is that what you are both saying? Have you never watched Schumacher or Hamilton pass people in braking zones? Come on now, people lets have an serious discussion.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

Please point out were the Renault was faster! Actual facts! ( looking forward to your next reply)

Do you understand the effects of slipstreaming? This is more representative:

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... _trap.html

There is also a massively glaring point that you keep avoiding. Why was Hamilton stuck behind Kubica for so long?

[turbof1]

But there's nothing to suggest he's improved and another driver hasn't.

I think that's correct. In my opinions both have improved since 2007. Both had to learn how to deal with not winning, had to learn to be calm and collected even when things didn't went their way. So without hyping or saying which one is better, both have improved.

I also have issues with the genunity of the topic. It's a charming one, but the topic starter doesn't come from a neutral perspective. Saying driver A, B and C are overhyped, but driver D, his favourite magically isn't. That's not how a good topic works, and will lead to bickering, as of currently.

I'll keep the topic open for now, but I'd advice not to put too much energy in it given how it's evolving... .

[ringo]

I'd like to move away from Hamilton and Alonso, obviously the Hamilton fans are boyant at the moment now that their man has a red bull like advantage over the other cars, they were a bit quieter in the previous years before that, but fair play to em.

Getting back to Raikonnen, If I may.....

No jokes, I read this on PlanetF1 forum, and this is kind of hype I am talking about re: Kimi Raikonnen.

Where is the evidence to support this.

Kimi is a far superior driver to Alonso. In other thread I posted the top 3 would be Kimi, Hamilton and Vettel.

But Alonso is very good in getting 100% from the team. Kimi obviously much faster driver but he has always been in and out driver. If you know Kimi by his Mclaren-Mercedes days you will know what I am talking about. Kimi hates simulators and is considered lazy driver but he was looked very well during that time by Ron Dennis and the team. Although Ron was behaving like his dad and controlled Kimi in many things. So although their relationship was not great on track it was fantastic. Very unfortunate that Kimi lost championship by 2 points in 2003 with Ferrari and William BMW having superior cars. In 2005 with the reliability, bad luck as well. But those were his best days by far. Kimi was basically in and out of the car driver without having to work hard with the car or tyres. I remember in one of interview a person asked about the problem and Kimi casually replied I do not know go and ask the engineer In Ferrari he enjoyed lot of freedom and was allowed to do whatever he wants. He also got tatooed immediately when he went to Ferrari but racing wise he got much worst. Jean todt was a good manager so I guess he helped him but otherwise he was never able to get the car working.

In Ferrari Kimi is made look slower and the team works around Alonso. As a race driver he is faster than Alonso even today but he needs to get the car working for him. This weekend he said he had no pace and it was horrible. I really hope Kimi can work hard with his engineers and analysis this issue and how to overcome it. Today he was almost 1sec a lap slower than his team mate. He is yet to have a nice race but this was such a torture. Having said that the season is long and neither are going to be near Mercedes AMG drivers so Kimi can take Alonso in the second half of the championship.

Ooh i like that fairy tale. Can you tell me about the sequel? When is it coming to theatre?

I agree with you here. I myself think Kimi is similar to Jenson in terms of ability and sensitivity. I don't see him as challenging Alosno, and i think Ferrari know this and that's why they brought him in the team. They knew he couldn't challenge Alonso. And to make the deal even sweeter the public believed otherwise, so you get a nice hype of having 2 champions, but you know deep down, one is going to relegated very early.

[kooleracer]

Like I thought when facts shows that Renault was slower then the Ferrari which had the highest top-speed i get no reply......hahahah Ultra_tech & Waywardism got to love you guys.... So did I lie or was I "trolling" or are you just blinded by your Alonso favoritism?

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

You get no reply because you are talking absolute utter tripe.

In Abu Dhabi 2010, Hamilton was stuck behind the renault of Kubica because the renualt was too fast on the straights to over-take, the same reasons Alonso could not pass Petrov.

Simple and plain as that.

So your opinion about Abu Dahbi is the truth rather then actual facts? You do know how the read table's right? Where does it show that Pertov was faster on the straight please point it out to me? So you just can accept that your argument about why Alonso couldn't Petrov is wrong? This is getting ridiculous you are disregarding actual facts because they don't support your earlier clame. FAIL!

[Ultra_Tech]

As for Hamilton Alonso.
I don't think you can make excuses for Alonso losing to a rookie. So it's quite ironic from the thread starter.
I say this because if you put all the rookie vs experience driver matchups since hamilton, none of them has come close to even worrying their teammate.
So for Hamilton to beat Alonso is not something to be overlooked. Alonso got beaten, just how he has beaten all of his teammates.
OP started of well, as i agree with his position on Kimi, who was also convincingly beaten by grosjean the last part of 2013.

However i know if Alonso is paired with Hamilton again, he wont beat him. Hamilton is a much better driver than 2007.
And i say that for every year he's competed, including 2011. Alonso has my respect as equal best driver, but for different qualities. But there's nothing to suggest he's improved and another driver hasn't.
Someday they'll be teammates again i'd imagine.

Hamilton is a much better driver than 2007.........It's a FACT Hamilton would beat alonso in the same cars again......... he BEAT ALONSO!,BEAT HIM!!! (Equal points, wins, and second places)

which is why Jenson Button beat him in equal cars over a season right..........Oh wait, we don't count that one of course, Lewis was just having an off season..

Wait, he hasn't had an off season since 2007, he's driven better than 2007 every single year....even 2008 when he choked yet again in the final race of the season and won it in the last corner.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[kooleracer]

So in F1 you can only pass a car that is slower then you in the straights? Is that what you are both saying? Have you never watched Schumacher or Hamilton pass people in braking zones? Come on now, people lets have an serious discussion.

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... s=6807&p=5

Please point out were the Renault was faster! Actual facts! ( looking forward to your next reply)

Do you understand the effects of slipstreaming? This is more representative:

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... _trap.html

There is also a massively glaring point that you keep avoiding. Why was Hamilton stuck behind Kubica for so long?

Wrong facts, mate thats qualifying? We are talking about race pace? As you can see Alonso was the 3rd fastest in sector 1, fastest in sector 2 and 3rd fastest in sector 3 during the race. Those are the facts..... i am not making them up m8...

[turbof1]

I didn't had to finish my previous message; the topic is just breaking down into fanboyism and bickering.

Locked.