Red Bull RB10 Renault

[Juzh]

Would explain a lot.

[H2H]

With all the huge workload due to all the new stuff and the lack of testing streching the ressource time very thin it isn't surprising that they didn't discover the fault earlier. Generally the chassis testing goes on back at the factory and they have been busy working on mighty to-do list. With stable regs such a fault would be suspected much quicker but with all the new elements, especially the management of the power pack and the electronic rear breaking it is more hidden during the normal track procedures.

We will see how the RB10 in general handles the next tracks and in particular Vettel's 'old' chassis. The last two races support the working hypothesis that the Renault PP is down on power and less driveable. Monaco should suit the Mercedes-powered cars thus more, it will be interesting to overall trend between the teams.

[stefan_]

Barcelona Testing 2014 - Day 1 (13.05.2014)

[Hobbs04]

Interesting article from JAF1 specifically the comments about rb10 rear wing and flow vis.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/05/i ... rom-spain/

I know the rb9 had super rear df and it appears the rb10 isn't lacking too much either. The streaking pattern in the flow vis is interesting and I don't think I've seen that pattern on here before. Just thought I post about it.

I would've just posted a picture but not sure how.

[djos]

AMUS claims that Vettels old chassis was sent to Milton Keynes and after checking it, they found out that it was indeed distorted.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 62176.html

I'll believe that when a 2nd reliable English source confirms it, until then IMO it's just partisan German media making stuff up.

[hollus]

There is noting to this rumor from James Allen. The pattern he spotted:

...and which he interprets as micro vortex generators in action, is just the paint left over from the effects of gravity before running the actual aero test (pic from AMUS):

The second pic might or might not be from the same run, but count the amount of droplets between the N and the I, then between the I and the T in INFINITY, then look at the amount of stripes in the first pic.

[Sevach]

I'll believe that when a 2nd reliable English source confirms it, until then IMO it's just partisan German media making stuff up.

AMUS??

[djos]

I'll believe that when a 2nd reliable English source confirms it, until then IMO it's just partisan German media making stuff up.

AMUS??

It's a single source, no other F1 news org has corroborated it so until then I take it with a salt shaker!

[Cam]

I'll believe that when a 2nd reliable English source confirms it, until then IMO it's just partisan German media making stuff up.

AMUS??

It's a single source, no other F1 news org has corroborated it so until then I take it with a salt shaker!

Why would RB lie? There's nothing to gain. Vettel even stated it might all be in his head. A fault in the chassis is possible. Interesting they used the word "distorted" and not cracked. Early testing had massive heat issues, could this have effected the chassis any way?

[PlatinumZealot]

AMUS claims that Vettels old chassis was sent to Milton Keynes and after checking it, they found out that it was indeed distorted.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 62176.html

I'll believe that when a 2nd reliable English source confirms it, until then IMO it's just partisan German media making stuff up.

A distorted Carbon mono-coque? I never heard that one before! It would sound a bit more credible if they said cracked. But distorted?!! haha damn right we need a second source.

[Cam]

A distorted Carbon mono-coque? I never heard that one before! It would sound a bit more credible if they said cracked. But distorted?!! haha damn right we need a second source.

Why not? Here's what the wiki states:

Despite its high initial strength-to-weight ratio, a design limitation of CFRP is its lack of a definable fatigue endurance limit. This means, theoretically, that stress cycle failure cannot be ruled out. While steel and many other structural metals and alloys do have estimable fatigue endurance limits, the complex failure modes of composites mean that the fatigue failure properties of CFRP are difficult to predict and design for. As a result, when using CFRP for critical cyclic-loading applications, engineers may need to design in considerable strength safety margins to provide suitable component reliability over its service life.

[PlatinumZealot]

A distorted Carbon mono-coque? I never heard that one before! It would sound a bit more credible if they said cracked. But distorted?!! haha damn right we need a second source.

Why not? Here's what the wiki states:

Despite its high initial strength-to-weight ratio, a design limitation of CFRP is its lack of a definable fatigue endurance limit. This means, theoretically, that stress cycle failure cannot be ruled out. While steel and many other structural metals and alloys do have estimable fatigue endurance limits, the complex failure modes of composites mean that the fatigue failure properties of CFRP are difficult to predict and design for. As a result, when using CFRP for critical cyclic-loading applications, engineers may need to design in considerable strength safety margins to provide suitable component reliability over its service life.

This doesn't explain anything to what I posted though. Key words in my post are DISTORTED. That just doesn't happen to something as stiff as a carbon fibre chassis that was made properly. Permanent Distortion happens when the materials yields into the plastic range of the stress strain curve, or if the material was over heated or something or poorly made. This is very un-likley to happen to an F1 Chassis. It was better if they had said "cracked." Those chassis are pretty stiff you know - they just are not gonna be permanently distorted from loads created from driving. Unsubstantiated rumours IMO.

[OO7]

This doesn't explain anything to what I posted though. Key words in my post are DISTORTED. That just doesn't happen to something as stiff as a carbon fibre chassis that was made properly. Permanent Distortion happens when the materials yields into the plastic range of the stress strain curve, or if the material was over heated or something or poorly made. This is very un-likley to happen to an F1 Chassis. It was better if they had said "cracked." Those chassis are pretty stiff you know - they just are not gonna be permanently distorted from loads created from driving. Unsubstantiated rumours IMO.

Perhaps the flaw is due to manufacturing errors, so the distortion was present from the beginning?

[NTS]

Permanent Distortion happens when the materials yields into the plastic range of the stress strain curve, or if the material was over heated or something or poorly made. This is very un-likley to happen to an F1 Chassis. It was better if they had said "cracked."

The car was on fire a few times, maybe that damaged something in the floor?

[H2H]

The quotation from AMUS. The article combines several quotes from different people, those two are from Vettel. [according to the author]

"Der Schaden wurde in der letzten Phase des Bremsens angerichtet, dort wo du schon beim Einlenken bist. Da wurde das Heck unruhig. Es fehlte das Vertrauen spät zu bremsen. Also bremst du früher, doch dann passt die Linie nicht mehr, weil das Auto zum Scheitelpunkt hin falsch positioniert ist. Du musst mehr Kurve bewältigen als nötig. Das kostet dich am Ausgang richtig Zeit."

....

"Das Fragezeichen ist weg. Was mein Tempo heute angeht, war es, denke ich, vernünftig. Und mit dem Reifenverschleiß bin ich im Rahmen geblieben."

Basically first he had great troubles in the last breaking phase as the rear became instable, forcing him to make a longer corner and costing him lots of lap time at the exit. This also caused a greater tyre degredation. After Spain the question mark is no longer there and the tyre dg was within the window.

That part refers to the chassis tests in Milton Keynes were the distortion was detected. It isn't described how it happend and what caused it. Certainly there were shedloads of general problems during the first races. Cracked would be the usual term to describe it, but then again you have the translation issues with F1 specific terms and languages other then English. It certainly wouldn't be the first time something like that happened, at RBR or in F1.

Daraufhin wurde in der Fabrik in Milton Keynes Vettels Red Bull neu vermessen. Und siehe da. Das alte Einsatz-Chassis der ersten vier Rennen war verzogen. Damit stimmten auch die Fahrwerkseinstellungen nicht mehr. Das erzeugte beim Bremsen im Heck zu viel Unruhe.

We will see the respective performance of the RBR chassis and it's two cars in the next couple of races. This will give us a better appreciation of the trend.

Added the bit in the [], to question if indeed Vettel has said that.