Red Bull RB10 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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So much for broken/distorted chassis:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 51409.html

"Am alten Chassis wurde kein Schaden gefunden", erklärt Chefingenieur Paul Monaghan gegenüber 'Reuters'.

"We did not find any damages on the old chassis"

H2H
H2H
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013, 21:24

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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So that it everybody can easily see and find the relevant part I link directly to the Reuters UK article, which has the following answer by Paul Monaghan.
The 'old' chassis has not been found to be distorted," chief engineer Paul Monaghan said in response to a query.

"The investigation is ongoing as the extent of the checks is vast in order to be thorough. No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work to that completed prior to and within the Spanish GP.

"Changes to some ancillary equipment and preparation procedures has resulted from the checks made thus far," Monaghan added.

"Once all the information is available, Red Bull will address the points found in order to implement a complete solution."
So far a clear no, without (obviously) ruling out future findings as lots of (other) checks have to be ticked off. This leads me to the question how AMUS, generally one of most reliable ones, came up with such an article? They clearly implied that Vettel said the bit about the chassis by the way the parts were set. We will see how things go on from there, but so far it doesn't reflect well on AMUS...

Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose, they should know it...

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djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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Tbh I see it as partisan media playing cheer squad for their countryman - it's not the first time and won't be the last (I'm not singling out amus here, Aussie media is just as guilty).
"In downforce we trust"

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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H2H wrote:So that it everybody can easily see and find the relevant part I link directly to the Reuters UK article, which has the following answer by Paul Monaghan.
The 'old' chassis has not been found to be distorted," chief engineer Paul Monaghan said in response to a query.

"The investigation is ongoing as the extent of the checks is vast in order to be thorough. No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work to that completed prior to and within the Spanish GP.

"Changes to some ancillary equipment and preparation procedures has resulted from the checks made thus far," Monaghan added.

"Once all the information is available, Red Bull will address the points found in order to implement a complete solution."
So far a clear no, without (obviously) ruling out future findings as lots of (other) checks have to be ticked off. This leads me to the question how AMUS, generally one of most reliable ones, came up with such an article? They clearly implied that Vettel said the bit about the chassis by the way the parts were set. We will see how things go on from there, but so far it doesn't reflect well on AMUS...

Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose, they should know it...
You should not miss the different meanings of "chassis" when you judge hard.
Paul Monaghan is possibly talking about the pure survival cell as the "chassis". Whereas the first measurements were possibly done on the whole "chassis" at the wheelhubs. This would give the answer why they could not find the problem before: At the track the aligning is not done under load, whereas in the factory they have tools to measure the whole car under load.
Maybe even the change of the gearbox helped the rear axle more than the change of the survival cell. This would be even a better reason for not matching rear axle settings as the survival cell ends in front of the engine.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Blackout
1566
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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Image
AMuS

atlantis
atlantis
21
Joined: 24 Jan 2014, 14:33

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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What's that?
The batteries?
The whole engine maybe? :O

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F1NAC
170
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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Is that mgu-k at the bottom?

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Blackout
1566
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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Yes it's the MGU-K placed low on the left side of the engine.

XRayF1
XRayF1
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Joined: 20 Feb 2014, 10:08

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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You should not miss the different meanings of "chassis" when you judge hard.
Paul Monaghan is possibly talking about the pure survival cell as the "chassis". Whereas the first measurements were possibly done on the whole "chassis" at the wheelhubs. This would give the answer why they could not find the problem before: At the track the aligning is not done under load, whereas in the factory they have tools to measure the whole car under load.
Maybe even the change of the gearbox helped the rear axle more than the change of the survival cell. This would be even a better reason for not matching rear axle settings as the survival cell ends in front of the engine.
True as it may be, it would not explain RB's quality control and/or operations control at actual racing weekend.
While I may accept that a thorough investigation about a 'chassis distortion' may not have happened during the first few races, I would think that RB has to take measurements (at wheelbase, at the joints, etc.) each time the car is unloaded from the trailer.
I mean, a trailer and a plane is not a stable environment, a lot of vabriations for sure, and RB would have to check this again and again, if VET kept complaining about the behaviour of the car.

To me it sounds more as a convenient excuse for VET's reputation.
On the other hand, he may have to prove now that it was indeed the car and not him.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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XRayF1 wrote:
You should not miss the different meanings of "chassis" when you judge hard.
Paul Monaghan is possibly talking about the pure survival cell as the "chassis". Whereas the first measurements were possibly done on the whole "chassis" at the wheelhubs. This would give the answer why they could not find the problem before: At the track the aligning is not done under load, whereas in the factory they have tools to measure the whole car under load.
Maybe even the change of the gearbox helped the rear axle more than the change of the survival cell. This would be even a better reason for not matching rear axle settings as the survival cell ends in front of the engine.
True as it may be, it would not explain RB's quality control and/or operations control at actual racing weekend.
While I may accept that a thorough investigation about a 'chassis distortion' may not have happened during the first few races, I would think that RB has to take measurements (at wheelbase, at the joints, etc.) each time the car is unloaded from the trailer.
I mean, a trailer and a plane is not a stable environment, a lot of vabriations for sure, and RB would have to check this again and again, if VET kept complaining about the behaviour of the car.
Here you can see which tools are used for wheel alignment at the track:
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 38#p455438

Redbull uses similar ones, but I can find no picture at the moment. These are just homemade guides which are fitted to the front or rear stands to adjust camber and track. There is no connection/alignment between these and especially no 4-wheel laser alignment. So you just can not measure a distortion in the chassis with these tools.

In the factory they have a laser alignment and this finds every distortion.
XRayF1 wrote: To me it sounds more as a convenient excuse for VET's reputation.
On the other hand, he may have to prove now that it was indeed the car and not him.
You can believe what you want to believe. Feel free.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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djos
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Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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What rubbish, most of the teams have been using laser alignment at the track for years!
"In downforce we trust"

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Bomber_Pilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 14:19

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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djos wrote:What rubbish, most of the teams have been using laser alignment at the track for years!
RedBull use a piece of string. I will try to find some pictures when I get to the computer.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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Of course you can measure a misalignment between them, that's why they string the cars up for cross measurements.

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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djos wrote:What rubbish, most of the teams have been using laser alignment at the track for years!
All the laser alignment in the world will not detect a chassis defect because the ride height, camber, caster and toe adjustments will hide any problems exactly as they are designed to do.
Not the engineer at Force India

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turbof1
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Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: Red Bull RB10 Renault

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The only thing that can detect SOME of the issues, is sonic wave devices. But even then it's still difficult.
#AeroFrodo