Hamilton Vs Rosberg 2014

[flynfrog]

I agree lifting and coasting early will save fuel. Staying on the throttle and "late braking" will not.

I would call the lift off part of the braking phase. Im not sure if they are allowed to use the recovery without the mechanical brake or not.

To save the most fuel would be not to use the regn or mechanical brake at all. Coasting is more efficient than recovery.


If I had to guess with no data as we all are doing in this thread. I would wager that Hamilton is carrying more speed through the corner and not having to accelerate as much when leaving. Either that or they are fueling him lighter so he has less mass to deal with early in the race.

[PlatinumZealot]

Fueling lighter means that Hamilton's car is also lighter. This means for a given tyre and down force level his car accelerates faster and can go through corners faster but it also means that his engine would go through the gears slightly faster than Rosberg's because his engine would be doing less work. It also means longer engine Life for Lewis.

With such an advantage, wouldn't Rosberg's engineers want to be fueled light too? Why not?

[flynfrog]

Good question. Maybe Lewis is doing something Rosberg is not. Maybe its how they are splitting the strategies. It does always seem that Hamilton has lower fuel usage maybe its because he has to down to strategy.

Maybe there were two possible optimum fuel loads and they are hedging bets. I honestly have no idea.

[dans79]

Hamilton has always been known as a late breaker, and I still think what he's doing better than Nico. If I understand the The "break by wire" systems, the harder the driver breaks the more breaking force KERS Generates.

Another way to think of it is that if the driver is using 50% of the breaks, KERS might be 35% and the other 15% is coming from the actual breaks. If the driver is using 100% of the breaks KERS might be 85% and the other 15% is coming from the actual breaks. Thus drivers that break later (harder), can recover more energy with the caveat, that they can control the car under heaver breaking.

If you break later you might be coasting longer as well. This would increase fuel saving as well.

[flynfrog]

Hamilton has always been known as a late breaker, and I still think what he's doing better than Nico. If I understand the The "break by wire" systems, the harder the driver breaks the more breaking force KERS Generates.

Another way to think of it is that if the driver is using 50% of the breaks, KERS might be 35% and the other 15% is coming from the actual breaks. If the driver is using 100% of the breaks KERS might be 85% and the other 15% is coming from the actual breaks. Thus drivers that break later (harder), can recover more energy with the caveat, that they can control the car under heaver breaking.

If you break later you might be coasting longer as well. This would increase fuel saving as well.

there is only X amount of energy to recover. Braking later doesn't make more of it. It shortens the duration of the KERS recovery and most likely lowering its efficiency as the current flows are higher wasting more of the energy as heat.

[dans79]

there is only X amount of energy to recover. Braking later doesn't make more of it. It shortens the duration of the KERS recovery and most likely lowering its efficiency as the current flows are higher wasting more of the energy as heat.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that the KERS is most likely not a constant percentage of the total breaking force.

Think of it this way:
1. The break pedal ranges between 0% and 100% (maximum breaking force)
2. below 15% the breaking force only comes from the breaks. This would allow the drivers to have a really natural feel, when they are only partially on the breaks.
3. above 15% The proportion of the breaking force that is generated by the Kers system becomes a larger and larger percentage of the total.

the above means gradually applying the breaks would harvest less energy, than stomping on them (as long as you don't lock up). I'm making the numbers up but all I'm really saying is that the break force generated by the kers is probably not directly proportional to the total breaking force.

[flynfrog]

It makes more sense to max out the KERS then supplement with mechanical brakes to maximize harvesting. Late braking does necessarily mean braking harder either. You can't get more braking out of the tires by braking late.

[dans79]

You can't get more braking out of the tires by braking late.

Yes I know, I did think I needed to state the obvious. Theoretically it makes more sense, but drive-ability needs to be considered as well.

[Phil]

When I listen to Wolff about how they are managing their drivers, I'm not that sure they would actually fuel Lewis lighter at this stage. It seems to me, the team wants a level playing field as possible (on the car front) - meaning when they battle that they both each use the same modes etc. In that sense, would it then make sense to fuel one car lighter than the other, because one driver seems to use a tiny bit less on average?

[tathan]

Would a couple of metres later on the brakes really make a difference to fuel? I mean, obviously it will but surely we're talking a couple of hundred grams over a race?

I would have thought more would be saved by tip-toeing into corners and trying to keep delta-v as low as possible, rather than limit braking and getting the car turned in early at expense of entry speed?

[rifrafs2kees]

Hamilton would be well advised to handle this spat carefully while Alonso seems to be looking to jump ship. It's a pretty well informed assumption that the team will be more likely to side with Rosberg if things got really bad..(having been with them longer and also being German). I don't think anyone down the padock will be hard pressed to replace Hamilton with Alonso.

[basti313]

On what are you basing this fuel discussion?
The only thing that is telling us that Hamilton uses less fuel is the percentage in the TV stream. This is not connected to the fuel flow sensor! This is just based on the pedal usage, not more. It tells nothing without the actual pedal mapping they use.

[FemiA]

Not too sure if the display relates to throttle pressure as that doesn't make much sense. They have the flow rate meter and fuel density and based on that, it is relatively easy to calculate fuel used in Kg as they are doing.

They don't render fuel usage in % anymore.

[adrianjordan]

Re: fueling Hamilton light, I thought they had to carry 100kg of fuel this year so couldn't be light fueled??

[Cam]

Who cares if they are friends, why do they expect fake hugs after losing races, will Merc sell less cars because of that?

LEWIS HAMILTON AND NICO ROSBERG ANNOUNCED AS NEW AMBASSADORS OF IWC SCHAFFHAUSEN

Outwards appearances are extremely important. Happy smiley people with their wonderful watches....