Staying in the team even though you are clear number 2

[krtekf1]

We had some examples in the past when some drivers stayed in the top team even though they were clear number 2 driver. In last 20 years for example we had Irvine in Ferrari 1996-1999 with Michael (Irvine lost the tittle in 1999, because he let Michael through in French GP), Barrichello in Ferrari 2000-2005 with Michael, we had Felipe Massa with Alonso in 2010-2013 (Felipe forced to let Alonso through in Germany 2010, forced to change gearbox in USA in 2012 and got grid penalty to help Alonso move up the grid and better chance for tittle...), we had Mark Webber with Vettel in 2009-2013. They all complained time to time, how they are not treated fairly, but they stayed in the team. Why they did that?
Was it just because of the good car, a real chance of scoring podiums continuosly, a good salary or because of hoping the number 1 driver to retire soon and take his status in the team, …?

For example, I was allways a big fan of MSC, but I have never like the way Irvine and Rubinho ware treated in the Ferrari. So I do not understand Rubinho, why he stayed for so long in Ferrari. If I was in his place I would go out of the Ferrari after 2002 season, because the way he was treated in Austria, was really out of a racer mind. He said that day that its all written in the contract, but why did he signed the contract like that!?

What do you think? What would you do in their place? Do you think they would achive much more if they had the same status as Number 1 driver or if they went to another top team instead of staying?

[PlatinumZealot]

I would stay for the money because the Formula 1 world, and I, would have come to realize that I am not the best driver on the grid, and so in my heart of hearts I will know that my chances of being a World champion are pretty much naught unless I get a rocket ship and a journey man teammate. The former of which almost never gets made by the mid-field team I would be moving to once I leave my top flight seat.

[wesley123]

Those teams generally tend to have a car that can challenge for the title. So when the Number 1 driver isn't there, you are there, and you have the chance for the title. That is how Webber challenged for the title in 2010 and Irvine did so in '99.

Also, their choice of team clearly is the best one. They are number 2 for a reason, and that won't be different anywhere else. So they either are part of a midfield team full of drivers of the same level, or they are second driver in the top team where they can actually win, pr with pure luck(or bad luck from their team mate) challenge for the title. You won't get that in a midfield team.

[Cam]

Why they did that? Was it just because of the good car, a real chance of scoring podiums continuosly, a good salary or because of hoping the number 1 driver to retire soon and take his status in the team, …?

The answer is as complex as people are individual.

I'll list a few possibilities, but I think trying to nail down any one reason for a driver is impossible.
• timing - their motivation changes, opportunities change
• personality - some are happy being number 2, some not so much
• circumstance - team changes, bad advice, jumping ship
• skill - lack of
• money - copious amounts of
• want - happy to be number 2
• need - need to be in a better team and that comes at a cost

We could go on. Although we can see clear number 2's (that doesn't sound right does it?) in teams - I'm sure you ask any of them and they'll tell you they're not.

Not sure they's much to learn from this and any attempt to dig into the mind of a driver is best left to professional brain doctor thingy types with questions about mothers and cigars.

[Vettel Maggot]

Would you rather be racing for 2nd or 10th?

[MOWOG]

Would you rather be racing for 2nd or 10th?

That's the point, isn't. There may be 11 teams in Formula One, but at any given time, only two or at most three of them are fully competitive at the front of the field.

Anyone who feels himself ill used at Ferrari or Red Bull or Mercedes is free at any time to go take a seat at Caterham or Marussia or Toro Rosso where they could showcase their talent whilst fighting for 18th place.

[WaikeCU]

Also the fact that either Schumacher, Alonso and Vettel are drivers that have capabilities to make the difference and win multiple championships season in, season out. So they won't sign a better driver to unsettle their rhythm. I think Irvine, Webber and Massa might be more than just being best of the rest. Maybe they are genuine great at testing or providing the feedbacks needed to develop the car further and making it faster. I think perhaps Irvine, Webber and Massa are more team minded drivers.

[Phil]

I think there's another factor to: F1 is foremost still (and also) a team-sport. Even if you're not the driver pulling out the majority of points and fighting for the win/WDC there can still be a lot to take out of the sport by perhaps adding valuable contribution in other areas, like development that can also be a rewarding experience. I think Webber was always highly valued at RedBull, despite Vettel walking away with the majority of wins.

Then there's also the other element; Some cars favour some drivers more so than others. Even if you're a driver with the worlds biggest ego, you could still remain fairly confident if you knew that circumstance prevented showing your best performance. Just look at 2010-2013 and 2014. The cars are so different that Vettel, who mastered the blown-diffusor car the years before finds himself struggling against a new and (up to this point) less respected team-mate. Or in 2010 when Webber and Vettel were much closer than in 2011 when Vettel cruised off under the new Pirelli tyres.

I guess we can expect drivers to be adaptable, but not all are equal. And only because one driver is worse than the other, doesn't mean it's something that can't change. Then again - there is a difference between a number 2 driver like Ferrari used to enforce (clear team-orders, even when clearly bringing the sport into disrepute) and others where there seems to be more favoritism than outright number 2 handling. I think there's a difference.

[mnmracer]

I think 1999 is an interesting season in this regard, where the #1 driver was taken out of the equation and the #2 was given the chance to shine.

The idea that without 'Schumacher being favored', Irvine was now able to content for the championship is largely the result of Häkkinen's 5 retirements that year (with just 1 for Irvine). If you actually look at the qualifying gap, Irvine was ~0.7 seconds slower than Häkkinen as the #2, and ~0.8 seconds slower as the #1. Taking Schumacher's points out of the equation, Irvine would have scored an average 5,2 points per race as the #2 driver, and 4,6 points per race as the #1 driver.

Taking n the role of the '#2 underdog who's being overlooked' is very popular among these #2's, but in the one instance in modern Formula One where the #2 was made #1, he showed to be no better or worse for it.

[WaikeCU]

I think 1999 is an interesting season in this regard, where the #1 driver was taken out of the equation and the #2 was given the chance to shine.

The idea that without 'Schumacher being favored', Irvine was now able to content for the championship is largely the result of Häkkinen's 5 retirements that year (with just 1 for Irvine). If you actually look at the qualifying gap, Irvine was ~0.7 seconds slower than Häkkinen as the #2, and ~0.8 seconds slower as the #1. Taking Schumacher's points out of the equation, Irvine would have scored an average 5,2 points per race as the #2 driver, and 4,6 points per race as the #1 driver.

Taking n the role of the '#2 underdog who's being overlooked' is very popular among these #2's, but in the one instance in modern Formula One where the #2 was made #1, he showed to be no better or worse for it.

Still remembered that last weekend at Suzuka back in 1999. Hakkinen is king at Suzuka compared to Irvine, so he had the upper hand. He surely had that when Irvine destroyed his Ferrari during the weekend. Imagine that happening nowadays, when you know you don't have a T-car at disposal. Surely that's the end of your weekend!