Imminent F1 shakeup?

[Andres125sx]

Didn´t read last pages of the thread, but...

[deleted battery technical details argument - Flyboy 2160]

F1 is a lot of things, but specially marketing. Once people prefer EV´s over ICE, F1 will never be seen as the pinacle of anything anymore, and that will avoid most sponsors from investing in F1.

So IMO F1 does need an imminent shakeup like it has never needed before, at least if they want to be considered the pinnacle of motorsports in next years

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

So IMO F1 does need an imminent shakeup like it has never needed before, at least if they want to be considered the pinnacle of motorsports in next years

Pinacle of mostosports is different from pinnacle of development. We have Le Mans for that. Even WRC could be better for that

Again, it's the disease of our days. Everything must be a cause or some whinny sh*t. It's a sport. Some years back someone here suggested vegetarian causes should be awarded points in F1. Let's stop being such blind a-holes. It doesn't matter, it has no place here and at the end of the day we are more concerned about "changing" (ie. screwing) a sport, because of it's false symbolic value, while changing nothing important in the real world.

Let's remember, Europe is still in crisis, USA is going from debt to debt, developing nations still face social problems inspite having pockets full of money and the average joe (yes, even the "i'm so full of causes" one) sucks more as a person everyday

The only thing I suggest is having open rules. If some one wants to try the newest battery or keep an all ICE approach (it's the lightest one at the end of the day, has advantages) let them be. But then, some will b*tch about the money spent, all those hungry people, think of the children... Get a grip. Make a society that focuses on actual important things, instead of living from cause to cause were most people arrive at an age where they are already infertile without even finding a decent bloke/girl to match.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

EVs wont need batteries by 2045.

Discovery channel prediction, anyone? In the 50's we were supposed to have flying cars. Get a grip.

"As long as the manufacturers see F1 as the peak of vehicle technology they will invest" Nonsense. It is Marketing that pays for F1, not Engineering.

You really have swallowed the Kool Aid.

Says a lot about how commited to truth and reality, instead of wishful thinking, some people are.

Toyota said before leaving F1 that the KERS system used there was a joke. They really see it as pinnacle...

[Andres125sx]

So IMO F1 does need an imminent shakeup like it has never needed before, at least if they want to be considered the pinnacle of motorsports in next years

Pinacle of mostosports is different from pinnacle of development. We have Le Mans for that. Even WRC could be better for that

Talk that with sponsors, they put the money.

In the end of the day, what you or me think about F1 doesn´t matter at all, it´s who put the money´s opinion what matters, and they think investing in F1 is good because provide them an image or picture about being a company technologically advanced. But that will change once people realice future of automotion is EV´s.

And as you can see, I´ve never talked about "greeness" or stupid arguments like those used by FIA, but about technology, and public picture, wich in the end is what counts for the sponsors

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Problem with batteries is that they never prove themselves, ever. They are too much compromise, be it in size, weight or cost. Most times all those together.

Let's stop pretending the investment on them is low or that conspiracies impede their development. The consumer electronics industry is huge nowadays. Some countries have a bigger weight on them, economically and socially, than the automobile industry. Batteries are of huge importance on our mobile obsessed world, and consumer electronics industry goes crazy with it.

Every year there's something new, more efficient, groundbreaking... But, at the end of the day, devices have stagnated in terms of autonomy for years while cost ever increases.

Technology developers rather invest in more efficient CPUs and hardware than wasting time expecting a battery that will actually improve something. They are not low impact at all, let's remember. And, as technology advances, they have less and less lifetime. As they become more sensitive and complex, batteries simply ruin faster. Batteries with made with 10 years ago technology can survive long periods without being used. A recent one will die completely if left uncharged for a year.

Electronics prove they face the same challenge as ICE and cars. Power is hard to obtain and to storage it is even harder. They rather spend millions on getting 5 to 10% more efficiency out of an already on-the-limits CPU in terms of consumption, than going for the "breakthrough" battery development that could yeld much more than that.

Because it's simply a question of compromises. I'm sure my laptop could have a 24 to 36 hour autonomy with the latest advances in batteries. It would also either weight 5 kilos and cost twice as much as I paid or it would weight about the same but cost 10 times more. Would you gladly pay 10 thousand for a device that in 5 years will be useless? Do you think people could mass use informatics with that?

It's the same with cars and F1. We could all be using carbon made cars, lighter, etc. Then we would also be paying 100k on your average family hatchback. While technologies improve and costs come down, there are limits. Let the technical decisions make them, instead of forcing policies that may prove complete dead ends. F1 should follow that.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

So IMO F1 does need an imminent shakeup like it has never needed before, at least if they want to be considered the pinnacle of motorsports in next years

Pinacle of mostosports is different from pinnacle of development. We have Le Mans for that. Even WRC could be better for that

Talk that with sponsors, they put the money.

True story. When you have dropping audiences though, are sponsors satisfied? Less manipulation on their part and more support to the sports and fans would bring better results.

[flyboy2160]

Please don't turn this thread into yet another battery technology/Green debate.

[Harsha]

What ever FIA is doing it needs to be stopped by showing the cause of Improving the show,
Standing starts , Parc Ferme at the end of FP3 instead of Q1, where is seriously F1 heading towards , when do FIA realize Natural competition comes from easier regs than tighter regs with the artificial mockery and tricks

[irsq4]

From my point of view, FIA must axe development freeze rule! How otherwise teams and drivers could naturally challenge each other? There are less rules but more prohibition. don't do this, don't do that. This year, only race I watched completely was Bahrain. For me it became more interesting to read this forum and F1 sites than watch the race.

[GitanesBlondes]

The teams crying from the back of the grid keep buying into this myth that restricting everything will somehow make it easier for them to compete with the top teams even though the period of 2009 through 2014 has shown us, that this does not occur at all. The problem is too that the fans buy into this as well, and start parroting the same broken garbage that idiots like Monisha Kaltenborn have been peddling ad nauseum.

Opening the engines for development, and removing the limit on how many can be used per season would go a long way towards making the engine supply side of things more cost efficient rather than less cost efficient too.

Some food for thought. When society as a whole was generally less tolerant of individuality, and more interested in people conforming, F1 and motorsports was very much about breaking barriers. Now that society has swung in the other direction where individuality is trumpeted by society over conformity, F1/motorsports have become intolerant of pushing boundaries and breaking borders.

Ironic isn't it?

[Cam]

The only hope now I have for 'real' top tier open wheel racing, comes from a glimmer of news combining Adrian Newey, Red Bull Technology Centre and Red Bull buying Viry. Newey is a racer, Horner can manage anything and Red Bull can put on a show. I hope for the love of all that is petrol pure and holy, that Mateschitz is planning a coup.

That shakeup, would be massive, and welcome.

[FoxHound]

The only hope now I have for 'real' top tier open wheel racing, comes from a glimmer of news combining Adrian Newey, Red Bull Technology Centre and Red Bull buying Viry. Newey is a racer, Horner can manage anything and Red Bull can put on a show. I hope for the love of all that is petrol pure and holy, that Mateschitz is planning a coup.

That shakeup, would be massive, and welcome.

Your hope relies on a team that has been in F1 10 years? A singular team I may add.
That is just plain ridiculous, and here is why.

Red Bull are all about self interest. Not F1. Just Red bull.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/26721387
We dont like it....we are out. Some faith you have....


Furthermore....Newey is not a racer, he is an aerodynamicist. Want to see what happens when Newey races?


Horner is the equivalent of a white pussy cat stroked by a Bond bad boy. He aint diddly squat without the large Red Bull dollars behind him, regardless of what he has achieved in lower formula.
He is in no way any better than Norby Haug that got the sack from Mercedes. And this was a man who started off as a journo.

What F1 needs is rid of politicisation as demonstrated so admirably by Red Bull.
They are in F1 for a purpose, as everyone else. But the latest round of bullshit I gotta sift through my inbox in the mornings is how Red Bull are defecating on Renault from a very high plateau due to their "shortcomings".
Well screw me sideways.

I guess I'm just old fashioned in the sense that if you cant build the damn engine, you keep your mouth zipped until a) you find a better supplier or b) ya build your own. Yea....I'm certifiably insane these days.
If your hope in F1 is for everything petrol pure and holy, you have missed the target by investing your faith in a Public Relations exercise which is divested of petroleum....and invested in Taurine.

[Cam]

At least Newey does race. Honer won the Formula Renault scholarship in 1991 and had a reasonably successful driving career. Old mate Todt could only ever co-drive. MrE bailed after too many crashes.

I have more faith in a new and fresh business that has invested more in F1 than any other team in recent terms and has probably being more influential in growing the audience (or preventing the avalanche of leavers) than any other entity. Hell, they even got a country back in the game.

Compared to stuffy old marques who have control but fail to wield it - and whinge every year - yep, taurine looks pretty good than horse pi$$.

Red Bull are not perfect, but they embrace danger, performance, perfection, endurance, the limits and furthermore, know how to reach young markets while embracing new media.

Let's look at the other sides, including teams and management...... oh, no danger, fake sparks, no new media, no "limits', no danger, no performance, no show.... any wonder the audience is leaving en-masse.

Red Bull are all about self interest. Not F1. Just Red bull.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/26721387
We dont like it....we are out. Some faith you have....

Yep - and I hope that's the coup. FH, you might be happy with this new F1 - and good for you - but the vast majority are not. Nature loves a vacuum - and where the lack of top tier open wheel racing exists, opportunities also exist to fill that void. I don't see anyone else either capable or willing - do you?

[FoxHound]

No, no Cam.
I ain't happy. You see, Mercedes are wiping the floor with the opposition and yet their achievements go pretty much untrumpeted here.
I could have started this very thread 5 years ago in the face of Red Bulls aero domination. The parallels to this very Mercedes team are in fact quite eerie.

Yet inspite of a team down in the aero department it was decided total restructuring was necessary to afford a challenge.
Many dollars and many failures later we have a success story.

To denigrate the current formula is to also denigrate the last 4 years of Red Bull domination.
That what you want?

[Cam]

I want what I paid for. I want what's on the box, not the $hite inside it.

Who's not trumpeting Mercedes? I have. Full credit. They didn't compete for 2 years to concentrate on 2014. Awesome. And that's what the sport has come to - teams basically stop competing for years while they 're-build' to tackle a year off in the future.

So we end up having one team who dominates thanks to a 2 year head start, while every other team can't develop to catch up.

What's not to love?