FRIC Could Be Banned As Soon As Germany

[flyboy2160]

...The first time that I looked at the footage from Silverstone I thought that the reaction of Raikkonens cars was odd..

My thought was that he broke something in the rear by hitting the gutter, not FRIC, but no one has commented on such damage. But, hey, it's the Machiavellian FIA, so they could make up whatever fantasy they want - forget the facts.

[SectorOne]

I think what happened was the bump passed through the area between the front wheel and the floor.
And instead of doing the same with the rear, the diffuser took the whole hit and sent the rear flying.

[Dragonfly]

the technical director should be the most brilliant engineer/designer alive to keep up with what the teams are developing.

There are those who suggest that Charlie Whiting has NO formal engineering training. NONE!!!! And that he is nothing more than Bernie's appointed lap dog and butt sniffer. I have no idea if any of that is true.

But if Whiting DOES have any qualifications for his job, I for one would be very glad to hear of them.

It's a public secret that CW is the errand boy of BE since their younger days.
Every time BE feels the championship will be decided too early to his liking he gives CW the task to do something to stir the pot. And CW does his best no matter how stupid, illogical or technically dumb the solution and wording may be.

[Moxie]

I think some of ya'll are giving the FIA too much technical benefit of the doubt. There's a theme in a lot of posts that the FIA must have found something improper or at least potentially dubious in their review of technical drawings, so they are specifically banning those forms of FRIC, or perhaps banning all FRIC due to the difficulty of policing the different forms.

Reality is simpler. The FIA has decided that it's a technical violation to have "a system which appears to allow the response of the suspension at either or both of the rear corners to drive the response of the suspension at either or both of the front corners (or vice versa)." This means a simple anti-roll bar is legal because it couples the left and right corners together, but the same device turned longitudinally would be illegal because it couples the front and rear corners together. The FIA is not saying they have to ban all FRIC because of the difficulties of policing complicated systems, rather they are explicitly saying front-rear coupling itself is illegal. Full stop.

It's been open knowledge for several years that the purpose of FRIC is to couple front and rear corners together. On Tuesday the FIA decided this coupling was illegal. Perhaps that was the first day Charlie Whiting read the excellent F1T thread "What the FRIC is it?"

The quote above is from the FIA's letter to the teams this week, as reported by the reputable Adam Cooper at this link--
http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/07/08/fia- ... n-systems/

The FIA could have banned FRIC prior to any one of the last several seasons, thus giving teams time to engineer new solutions. They could have announced that the new interpretation of the rules will apply to 2015 cars, thus giving teams time to engineer new solutions. Instead they decide, mid season, to institute this ban, as if the suspension system is just another bolt on part.

[SectorOne]

Well it seems the two Kingpins decided to make the change right now rather then between two seasons.

Ferrari, Mclaren (called it) and Caterham built their own cake, realized it was never going to taste as good and threw everyone under the bus.

[Moxie]

Bernie, please.... retire yourself...

You´re 83 years old....

Double points at last GP
No practice
Engines freeze
Banning tons of technologies that actually make some production cars a lot more advanced than F1
Going to India, Singapur, Abu Dhabi...
Thinking about sprinklers, trumpets, sparks mechanism


Not enough yet?

Standing starts at every safety car

[Edax]

I think what happened was the bump passed through the area between the front wheel and the floor.
And instead of doing the same with the rear, the diffuser took the whole hit and sent the rear flying.

But with the rake they drive the diffuser is never the lowest point, it would have hit the tray or the floor at the sidepods. What caught Raikkonen out was that the front wheels were able to rotate the car with the rear wheels hanging about half a meter in the air. He couldn't catch it when the rear wheels landed. He was not skidding, so I don't understand how a bump can be missed by the front weels but not the rear wheels. Since Fric would try to keep the FW level when hitting the bumb I thought it might be related.

I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of this. The FIA is a strange club. But something must have set this of. Although it seems not unlike them to try to end the dominance of Mercedes, this appears a rush job not like a premeditated plan.

If it was about Mercedes, I would have thought them to do something more subtle. Like ask one of the teams to question the legality of Mercedes FRIC. The following investigation would perhaps not have given a ban, but would have released sufficient information for the other teams to be able to copy. They done that before.

It really seems that they just have woken up last week-end and decided that they don't like FRIC at all, despite knowing about it for 2.5 years.

The only thing that I could think of is this accident. For F1 it was pretty high profile. For one it would have been costly to extend the worldwide broadcast by one hour. But also it could have been much worse, if not for the razorsharp reactions of Massa and Kobayashi. I don't want to think what would happen if Raikonen would have been T-boned at that velocity difference.

I have to say that I also am not convinced by my own theory. But the alternative, the FIA and F1 going barking mad, after snorting too much contaminated cocaine at one of their parties, also doesn't have me convinced.

[Gaz.]

I think what happened was the bump passed through the area between the front wheel and the floor.
And instead of doing the same with the rear, the diffuser took the whole hit and sent the rear flying.

But with the rake they drive the diffuser is never the lowest point, it would have hit the tray or the floor at the sidepods. What caught Raikkonen out was that the front wheels were able to rotate the car with the rear wheels hanging about half a meter in the air. He couldn't catch it when the rear wheels landed. He was not skidding, so I don't understand how a bump can be missed by the front weels but not the rear wheels. Since Fric would try to keep the FW level when hitting the bumb I thought it might be related.

I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of this. The FIA is a strange club. But something must have set this of. Although it seems not unlike them to try to end the dominance of Mercedes, this appears a rush job not like a premeditated plan.

If it was about Mercedes, I would have thought them to do something more subtle. Like ask one of the teams to question the legality of Mercedes FRIC. The following investigation would perhaps not have given a ban, but would have released sufficient information for the other teams to be able to copy. They done that before.

It really seems that they just have woken up last week-end and decided that they don't like FRIC at all, despite knowing about it for 2.5 years.

The only thing that I could think of is this accident. For F1 it was pretty high profile. For one it would have been costly to extend the worldwide broadcast by one hour. But also it could have been much worse, if not for the razorsharp reactions of Massa and Kobayashi. I don't want to think what would happen if Raikonen would have been T-boned at that velocity difference.

I have to say that I also am not convinced by my own theory. But the alternative, the FIA and F1 going barking mad, after snorting too much contaminated cocaine at one of their parties, also doesn't have me convinced.

I still don't think the FIA came up with this on their own and to be honest I didn't find Raikkonen's accident as unusual as others do, aero cars have always acted strangely when airborne, such as Davidon's Toyota at Le Mans a few years ago. As I said on another forum there is some merit to wonder if Mclaren had the motive and inclination to guide the FIA to look into a system they haven't really got on top of, but Williams have. They could probably accept coming 2nd to Mercedes in the WCC, and maybe 3rd to Ferrari, but with that engine should they really be 6th in the WCC behind Williams and Force India? I just find it odd that the topic has surfaced now despite being used by Renault in 2008 and openly talked about by casual fans since 2012 when Mercedes struggled with it.

[SectorOne]

He couldn't catch it when the rear wheels landed.

Watching the footage again. It´s not so much the bump but a dip in the grass that causes the problems.

The car dips down then goes up (to circuit level) and this is what causes the rear to completely step out.

[Moxie]

I still don't think the FIA came up with this on their own and to be honest I didn't find Raikkonen's accident as unusual as others do, aero cars have always acted strangely when airborne, such as Davidon's Toyota at Le Mans a few years ago. As I said on another forum there is some merit to wonder if Mclaren had the motive and inclination to guide the FIA to look into a system they haven't really got on top of, but Williams have. They could probably accept coming 2nd to Mercedes in the WCC, and maybe 3rd to Ferrari, but with that engine should they really be 6th in the WCC behind Williams and Force India? I just find it odd that the topic has surfaced now despite being used by Renault in 2008 and openly talked about by casual fans since 2012 when Mercedes struggled with it.

If there was a serious safety issue here, the FIA would have been well within their right to ban FRIC, without any further discussion. Moreover they could have saved a lot of face by using drivers' safety as an excuse for the ban. Instead they are banning this technology based upon a new interpretation of the current rules. The whole thing fails the smell test.

[MOWOG]

The whole thing fails the smell test.

Agreed. Elsewhere, somebody raised a question about whether there is a correlation between the sale of Caterham and this latest initiative by the FIA. If anyone has definitively answered that question, I missed it.

The timing is odd. Coincidence?

[Chuckjr]

I have two questions, but I'm sure there are many more in regards to the FRIC and tire interrelationship.

Since the FRIC ban is likely, I wondered if not having a FRIC system will affect tire temperature achievement/stability and how will this affect long run tire wear? Can this even be known by the teams atm considering they have been using it, in some cases, 2.5 years?

Secondly, would a car which has been dependent on a FRIC system as a component to its aero stability, present a safety concern? Or is FRIC not that aero important on any car?

[k.ko100v]

Bernie, please.... retire yourself...

You´re 83 years old....

Double points at last GP
No practice
Engines freeze
Banning tons of technologies that actually make some production cars a lot more advanced than F1
Going to India, Singapur, Abu Dhabi...
Thinking about sprinklers, trumpets, sparks mechanism


Not enough yet?

When this mooron retires I will open a bottle of champagne and drink for this! [-o<

[CBeck113]

Well it seems the two Kingpins decided to make the change right now rather then between two seasons.

Ferrari, Mclaren (called it) and Caterham built their own cake, realized it was never going to taste as good and threw everyone under the bus.

Don't always believe what AMuS writes - two days earlier they said it was McLaren, and then Boullier came out with his statement...I believe that certain "factual articles" are actually just bait to get a statement from the teams.

And about FRIC being the reason for Kimi's accident - no. If that were the case, then they wouldn't have given the teams a chance to veto the move.

[WaikeCU]

I think Kimi just overcorrected when the back bounced up joining the track. That over correcting, drove him head on into the barrier. Didn't he do something similar back in 2013 Japanese GP during Practice?