2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[mrluke]

They wont get lag from a larger turbine because the mgu-h controls turbine speed.

Also the more "excess boost" is created by the turbo the more energy can be sent from mgu-h to mgu-k this appears to be where merc get their extra power from.

[Dragonfly]

It might spool up slower but the inertia of the larger turbine mass may reduce turbo lag overall once the turbine is spooled up.

It may also be easier for a larger turbine to drive the MGU-H due to the greater turbine mass inertia acting a little like a fly-wheel (hope I'm making sense).

You seem to be missing the fact that the MGU-H can spin up the turbine according to the current rules and prevent any lag.

[djos]

No I'm not missing that point at at all - but why waste ERS power when you can have a larger turbine that stays spooled up longer by itself due to inertia?

That means more MGU-H power generated for longer if I'm not mistaken.

[langwadt]

No I'm not missing that point at at all - but why waste ERS power when you can have a larger turbine that stays spooled up longer by itself due to inertia?

That means more MGU-H power generated for longer if I'm not mistaken.

the is no free lunch, it will be offset by the extra power need to spin it up

[djos]

No I'm not missing that point at at all - but why waste ERS power when you can have a larger turbine that stays spooled up longer by itself due to inertia?

That means more MGU-H power generated for longer if I'm not mistaken.

the is no free lunch, it will be offset by the extra power need to spin it up

That's what the ICE is for

[mrluke]

No I'm not missing that point at at all - but why waste ERS power when you can have a larger turbine that stays spooled up longer by itself due to inertia?

That means more MGU-H power generated for longer if I'm not mistaken.

If you can harvest the full 120kw from the mgu-h then the ERS would only exist as boost control because it couldn't supplement the mgu-k power.

That sounds preferable to trying to use your turbo as an energy storing flywheel?

[djos]

I'm just suggesting the larger turbine produces a mild flywheel effect and the extra inertia helps drive the MGU-h with lower mechanical losses - think of it like using a longer lever to move something, the longer the lever, the more efficient you are are moving the mass.

Anyway that's my theory, it likely explains only part of the equation but I'm ok with that.

[wuzak]

A larger turbine should allow more power to be generated by the MGUH.

The downside is that the increased inertia will require more power to spool the turbo.

The upside is that the increased inertia will allow more power to be generated when the turbo needs braking (ie when the driver gets off the throttle) - assuming they use the MGUH to do that too.

The increased inertia may also help the MGUH control turbo speed in steady state conditions. F1 engines are rarely in steady state conditions, however.

[xpensive]

A larger turbine should allow more power to be generated by the MGUH.

The downside is that the increased inertia will require more power to spool the turbo.

With a clutch between turbine and MGU-H, as allowed in the rules, this will not be a problem.

[wuzak]

The turbo will be spooled up by the MGUH, so the clutch will be engaged and will be irrelevant. Without the MGUH the lag will be measured in seconds.

If you are talking about the theory where the compressor can be disconnected from the turbine, there is little point spooling up the turbine without spooling up the compressor.

[xpensive]

Not at all, think split-turbo now wuz;

5.2.4 The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system.
This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.

Conclusively, you disconnect the inertia of the turbine at spool-up with the MGU-H only, which allows for the log-xhaust.

We have discussed this before, why I know we have different interpretation of the rules, but this is still my take.

[wuzak]

Not at all, think split-turbo now wuz;

5.2.4 The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system.
This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.

Conclusively, you disconnect the inertia of the turbine at spool-up with the MGU-H only, which allows for the log-xhaust.

We have discussed this before, why I know we have different interpretation of the rules, but this is still my take.

So, what are you spooling up? The turbine or the compressor?

If you spool up the compressor the turbine is still going to take some time to spool up.

If you spool up the turbine there is no boost, so then you have to spool up the compressor too.

Not forgetting that if the compressor is a fraction of one rpm different in speed then they have broken the rules. And nothing in 5.2.4 circumvents that or creates a loophole.

[xpensive]

As you obviously don't bother to read my posts, I'll let this one rest.

[ian_s]

i dont see how they can disconnect the compressor and the turbine, that would break 5.1.6

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a shaft assembly parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre line. The shaft must be designed so as to ensure that the shaft assembly, the compressor and the turbine always rotate about a common axis and at the same angular velocity, an electrical motor generator (MGU-H) may be directly coupled to it.

[Facts Only]

There are definitely no clutches in the current turbochargers. Source; first hand knowledge.