Formula "Free"

[wesley123]

If it's impossible, how do RC cars even exist? It's obvious that a lag in response means the driving will never be optimal, but it's possible. If nothing else, at least straight line speeds should be much higher.

The RC cars I know aren't driven over kilometers away from the person who controls it. Also the RC cars I know don't need to send video over.

As for the signal decaying, that's not an issue with decent equipment

I would say an telecom provider would have good equipment, but once you are in an area with less coverage, your connection becomes incredibly unstable.

And comparing with RC cars, well, this formula would be much faster

Making an 20ms delay much more noticable than on a slower, smaller RC car.

And compared to virtual reality, i don't get why people keep saying that real cars on a real track it's the same thing as a game.

Because it is a competition on a large scale RC car that you have to witness from grandstands. This same remote controlled action can be seen in leagues like iRacing. The only difference there is that you aren't meters away and can only see a small portion of the track for an astronomical entree fee.

if that were the case, how come people use RC cars, planes, etc, instead of simulators?

Hobbies. Which also is why simulators are played; as a hobby.

This could actually have more potencial for creating new technology for the auto industry because it wouldn't be limited by regulations. For instance, you can't develop a two stroke/direct injection to run in WEC, and you can't have a diesel in F1, even if you're convinced they would be better.

F1 never had any road car relevance, and probably never eve will. You need to look more into prototypes to see this road car relevance. I cannot think of a single thing in F1 that later found it's way to road cars.

Drivers need to feel what a car is doing..

Because if a car starts to slide, they will immediately feel that, before they actually see it..

And if I'm correct, current FFB effects are completely wrong. Not to mention this also is data that needs to be sent in real time. Which will also happen in a delay.

[Andres125sx]

And compared to virtual reality, i don't get why people keep saying that real cars on a real track it's the same thing as a game.

Because it is a competition on a large scale RC car that you have to witness from grandstands. This same remote controlled action can be seen in leagues like iRacing. The only difference there is that you aren't meters away and can only see a small portion of the track for an astronomical entree fee.

The only difference is not that, the only difference is iRacing is a game, and this would be real cars on a real track

The way the cars are controlled is a difference much smaller than people think, they´re real cars anyway, if you´re into the cockpit or controlling remotedly doesn´t change that much, you just have to get used to receive the feedback visually, the rest is exactly the same, physics, risk (at least for the car and your race chances), setup...

Comparing with iRacing is comparing apples to oranges


Or you think military drones pilots are comparable to flight simulator freaks? Apple to oranges, one is real stuff, the other is a game.

[brutus]

I'm not saying that such cars would have the same "feel" as conventional race cars. Of course they would give less feedback, but my point is that it is possible to develop a driving style that suits the camera feedback.

I agree that RC is a hobby in the sense that it is pure entertainment, but so is motorsport in general. Nobody "needs" F1 races, it only exists because its fun. There's no need to " justify" them.

Also that kind of formula would surely produce some very interesting solutions in terms of chassis, engines, transmission (could be fully automatic), active suspension (could make the cars much more smooth to drive), downforce, tyre compounds, aerodynamic brakes, etc. It would be very interesting from an engineering perspective, and you can't get anything remotely similar to that with an virtual simulator.

[Ciro Pabón]

brutus, welcome.

I don't know if you are going to understand how polite I'm trying to be, but I assure you I'm trying hard.

Racing is a sport, arguably one of the oldest in the world. Formally, it started in 680 A.D.

Sports are competitions among men. Thus, a competition by remote control is... well, a fake sport.

I guess (apologies if I'm assuming things incorrectly) that you have never raced in an official competition.

Once you do, you will read this thread and you will smile, because you will be enlightened.

Real racing


Simulated racing

[Andres125sx]

Ciro, yours could be considered a patronising post, what should be deleted/banned.....

I guess (apologies if I'm assuming things incorrectly) that you have never raced in an official competition.

Once you do, you will read this thread and you will smile, because you will be enlightened.

I´ve raced myself for around 10 years, and I didn´t smile at all, actually to me your post is quite offensive even if you start saying you´re trying to be polite, because you aren´t


I know most people hear/read RC and instantly think about toys and find these ideas laughable.... sorry guys but you´re totally obsolete...


Or you think these are toys?



https://www.eff.org/files/images_insert ... rone_0.jpg




Drones are the future, like it or not, and this would be a drone competition, about racing cars driven by racing drivers

Don´t call it a sport if you want, but hey, if you still consider F1 an sport....


The idea is great, if you don´t like it ignore this thread, but your posts is in excess

[Pierce89]

Ciro, yours could be considered a patronising post, what should be deleted/banned.....

I guess (apologies if I'm assuming things incorrectly) that you have never raced in an official competition.

Once you do, you will read this thread and you will smile, because you will be enlightened.

I´ve raced myself for around 10 years, and I didn´t smile at all, actually to me your post is quite offensive even if you start saying you´re trying to be polite, because you aren´t


I know most people hear/read RC and instantly think about toys and find these ideas laughable.... sorry guys but you´re totally obsolete...


Or you think these are toys?


http://www.estrelladigital.es/media/est ... 292818.jpg
https://www.eff.org/files/images_insert ... rone_0.jpg
http://images.gizmag.com/hero/4484_28080584646.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n.tiff.jpg


Drones are the future, like it or not, and this would be a drone competition, about racing cars driven by racing drivers

Don´t call it a sport if you want, but hey, if you still consider F1 an sport....


The idea is great, if you don´t like it ignore this thread, but your posts is in excess

You obviously don't know about Ciro. He is probably our most valuable member, and he's right. I've raced rc cars and real cars and motocross bike(I own a2010 Honda crf450r). Rc racing is just a pale shadow of real racing.

[Cold Fussion]

snip

Flying a drone isn't comparable to motor-racing, and neither are AI controlled 'robots'.

[brutus]

The argument that it is not "real racing" is a weak one.

First, the success of a given sport/activity as an entertainment venture is not determined by any one individual, and not even the practicants of that sport, but by a whole group of people, in particular people who just want to watch, and therefore don't really know (or care) how "real" it feels for the driver. If they enjoy what they're seeing, purist or ideological arguments fall to the ground.

Second, the same line of criticism could be applied to motorsport in general. How come it's a sport if a machine does most of the work, and the fastest vehicle usually wins, even if has a fat alcoholic driver that couldnt run half a mile? I'm sure many used that kind of argument to criticize motorsport when it first appeared. Also, some people don't recognize certains forms of racing as real racing at all, such as drag racing. But the reality is that nobody has a monopoly on the concept of "racing", and just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's a bad idea that nobody should pursue.

Third, who says racing has to be only driver-centered? Racing is not only about pleasing the driver. In fact, drivers often complain about innovations that make cars faster but less enjoyable/fun to drive. (Rossi talking about 500cc two strokes comes to mind). The most prominent forms of motorsport, like F1 and sportscars racing, always had a strong engineering
aspect, and have always been much more popular than driver centered spec series, such as karts, GP2, F3, etc.

Finally, i get that driving a car in a remote cockpit is not the same thing. Its pointless to keep stressing that, because i never argued otherwise. I myself enjoy driving real cars and racing karts, and i don't race simulators or RC at all. But i'm convinced this type of formula could produce some seriously fast cars, and it would be able to let us see how many ideas that were originated in F1, like fan cars, ground effects, 6 wheel cars, etc, develop without being outlawed. Not to mention new ideas. It would be very attractive to engineering students (like Formula SAE). And while its true that driving inside the car is more exciting, certainly a lot of people would find that they can excel at developing the skills needed to drive remote cars. Some of these are people that for a variety of reasons wouldnt be able or wouldnt want to get a "real" race gig.

It seems to me that there's a bit of a reaction against a different type of racing. One could compare that to painters criticizing photography when it was first invented.

[Andres125sx]

You obviously don't know about Ciro. He is probably our most valuable member

No I don´t know about Ciro, but his reply was self-explanatory with that link to mud wrestling.... If he usually is not that way, ok, but here he was

and he's right. I've raced rc cars and real cars and motocross bike(I own a2010 Honda crf450r). Rc racing is just a pale shadow of real racing.

I also have experience with real racing, rc cars, and fpv, and you´re assuming RC cars are similar to this proposal, when they´re not, not even close

Rc is just a pale shadow of fpv, and I´m talking about toy size cars, with similar to full size cars this would be day and night. If you have experience with RC cars you sure know size matters. Small cars reactions are too sharp, no inertia and that makes them very uncontrollable (compared to bigger cars). Bigger cars are a lot more similar to real cars, and if you´re controlling it via fpv.... Much closer to real racing than to usual rc cars

Comparing RC cars with this is comparing apples to oranges. Put a camera inside one of your cars and test it yourself, but I warn you a small car is just too stressful, it should be something from Baja 5b size minimum

[Andres125sx]

I uploaded this yesterday to show you how different is RC from FPV

I fly RC planes since I was a child (20 years back). 10 years ago I discovered FPV and never flew traditional RC again because it´s day and night. Once you put your goggles, you´re inside the cockpit, not physically, but you´re there

At some aspects it´s even better than the real stuff, because you can assume risks you would never assume if real

This flight is a good example, chasing start at 3:15, and real action from 4:30 more or less




That´s the reason I say comparing RC and FPV is comparing apples to oranges, and I insist, that´s talking about same size, if we talk about 1:2 scale then the difference is even higher, and FPVing something that size must be asthonising

[machin]

I must admit I was firmly in the camp of; "what is the point if there is no driver involved"; I.e. what is the real aim of an R/C car race? And what part of the car is sacrosanct? in a "normal" race car it is the driver... in an RC car is it the radio transponder? is the ultimate aim to get the radio transponder around the track as quickly as possible?

it kinda seems a bit pointless... who care's if one radio transponder can get around a track quicker than another radio transponder?

But having said... I used to like watching Robot Wars as a kid, so maybe I could grow to like RC racing too....

[Jeffsvilleusa]

Putting aside concerns about feasibility and purity I think it's a great idea, enclosing the tracks can make them safe to watch and then the engineers could really have at it and make some bizarre stuff. At the risk of being facetious you could equip them with missiles and really have a show, but I digress.

I guess it would be more of an engineers formula, the top flight drivers would lose their sensitivity measured in less than milliseconds although surely some people would be better than others at piloting. It would make it somewhat less about the drivers and more about the engineers and the results would no doubt be astonishing.

That said I like the man in the car because then he is like a cyborg.

[filbs]

Making a crazy (sort of) unregulated car sounds like something that a team could do - I guess they have the technology and the team have a desire to do this kind of thing for the fun of it. Making it remote control or autonomous loses some of the fun of it, but reduces the cost of crashworthiness and risk of killing the driver.
Manned or not, make a crazy car. Set some lap records. Attracts engineering talent, gets publicity. No need for a race series. My money's on Red Bull doing something like this first. Maybe they'll build the X1!