Is the BMW i3 the most advanced production car?

[flynfrog]

the binding powders are epoxy based and tend to go into solution with the rtm resin. You try to use a very small percentage of them. I don't think they wash out very much. I doubt you could see any difference in finished properties compared to a part without them.

Most RTM shots are dry fabric with hand laid preforms. Some of the links I posted earlier show some form of automation. In prepreg parts they can use tape lay heads on larger flatter structures.

[Gaetan7TB4]

Hi,

thanks for your answer.

I know already about prepreg taping, I've ssen one of these huge machines in an aeronautical company.

Problem with binding powders is that when cured, they become just weight, and do not participate in the strength of the final part, since they won't be mixed with the injection resin. It is that particular issue I am trying to determinate.

Anyway thanks for your time !

Gaetan

[flynfrog]

Hi,

thanks for your answer.

I know already about prepreg taping, I've ssen one of these huge machines in an aeronautical company.

Problem with binding powders is that when cured, they become just weight, and do not participate in the strength of the final part, since they won't be mixed with the injection resin. It is that particular issue I am trying to determinate.

Anyway thanks for your time !

Gaetan

Some go into solution and crosslink with the final matrix. They might throw off your Epoxide ratio slightly but they are used in such small percentages it doesn't really matter.

[Powerslide]

anyone know what the set up is on the i3 with its range extending engine? just curious how they have set it up and when and when not does it the engine run

[Tommy Cookers]

anyone know what the set up is on the i3 with its range extending engine? just curious how they have set it up and when and when not does it the engine run

a 650cc twin cylinder petrol-electric car sounds ideal
(my dream these last 40 years, press the pedal to go, no stick and clutch nonsense)
also hopefully the braking system seamlessly merges regenerative and mechanical braking ?

ideal at least till all electricity comes from low carbon/no carbon sources
at present our Govt's fraudulent to boost uptake of EVs also boosts demand for high carbon electricity
(fraudulent in pretending that electricity drawn from the battery was generated at 100% efficiency)

[langwadt]

anyone know what the set up is on the i3 with its range extending engine? just curious how they have set it up and when and when not does it the engine run

a 650cc twin cylinder petrol-electric car sounds ideal
(my dream these last 40 years, press the pedal to go, no stick and clutch nonsense)
also hopefully the braking system seamlessly merges regenerative and mechanical braking ?

ideal at least till all electricity comes from low carbon/no carbon sources
at present our Govt's fraudulent to boost uptake of EVs also boosts demand for high carbon electricity
(fraudulent in pretending that electricity drawn from the battery was generated at 100% efficiency)

the coal powerplant nearby has an efficiency of 47% when making electricicty, at the time when district heating
is needed up to 91% It has filters, NOx and SO2 scrubbers.

So even with an allowance for battery and distribution efficiency it is on par with a combustion engine car, and has the added benefit that the pollution is no longer in the inner city

[flynfrog]

Composites technology had a write up on the I3
http://www.compositesworld.com/articles ... 1c134279c5

I grabbed a few pictures from sampe Ill post when a get a second.

[Andres125sx]

Nice thread, as an amateur with composites (I only work with finished products, tubes both bidirectional and unidirectional, boards, etc.) I love reading this technical discussions

there's little point in having EVs (whether of metal or CFC structure) until electricity all comes from low-carbon sources

That depends on it's primary mode of operation really. If it's primary an ICE car, with harvesting the waste for electricity, then it's probably worth it (I imagine the added efficiency makes up for the increased mass). Fully electric vehicles I would tend to agree, however a full electric vehicle with it's power from coal fired power stations is still probably a lower CO2/km figure than a conventional ICE car?

Yes it is

This is one of the few fair comparisons I´ve seen

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/ ... k?page=0,0

When you compare petrol cars with EVs whose energy comes only from coal plants, EVs are still greener

And that´s not a fair comparison obviously, only the argument used by people who don´t like EV´s, who conveniently ignore two things

- Real world is not based on coal plants, maybe in India, but at any other country we also use nuclear plants and renewable energies, so for a fair comparison we must take the average, not only worse case scenario
- Petrol also pollute before burning. Oil wells, refineries, oil tanker and oil trucks are not inocuous obviously

So comparing only with coal plants, EV´s are greener, if you take the average (coal, gas, nuclear, hydro, solar....) the difference is obviously much higher, and if you live in a country like Spain where we´ve achieved more than 50% renewable energy use some months, the difference is huge

Edit: And if you live in El Hierro (Canary Islands) where they´re first island to be self-suficient with 100% renewable energy, EV´s literally produce no emissions at all

[Andres125sx]

I'm not going to split hairs with you. So this point is done for me. BMW uses renewables. Other brands don't. I can't even see a claim that another manufacturer tries to generate the energy for making his body shell material by renewables. Because BMW does it is irrelevant for the carbon foot print and the eco balance how much energy they use. It is green energy.

Ok.

But would it be more green if they used a less energy intensive process to produce their cars and allowed the hydro energy they save to go into offsetting energy production from a coal plant? Obviously that's not easy to answer, but it's just something to think about.

Yes it´s easy to answer, they´re not Greenpeace, but BMW

They´re doing more than any other manufacturer in this aspect, so please, if you want to criticize some manufacturer, do it for example with any american manufacturer who don´t care at all about any of this, and whose cars pollute double or triple than any other, but going that far with the only manufacturer who is trying to reduce his footprint... sorry but it´s absurd

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote="Andres125sx"]
.... When you compare petrol cars with EVs whose energy comes only from coal plants, EVs are still greener
.... if you live in a country like Spain where we´ve achieved more than 50% renewable energy use some months, the difference is huge [quote]
your Vancouver source does not say what you say as above

more importantly .....
surely Spain has not achieved more than 50% renewable energy, it has achieved more than 50% renewable electricity ?
a very different thing
eg the UK uses about 65% of its energy as direct fuel burn for residential, industrial, and agricultural heat
(this is typical - most of the world's population lives in such temperate countries)
the other 35% is fuel burned indirectly ie to make electricity and for transport
so even if all electricity becomes 'renewable', and then if all possible transport is EV
the decarbonisation is a lot less than the impression my UK government is giving
because they are making the same misrepresentation as yours above
also many 'renewables' eg biofuel and biomass combustion do not give better than about 50% carbon reduction

the UK is not spending tax income, it is using borrowing as income - we owe Euro 2000000000
at present we pay about Euro 20000 to each EV convert (initial payment, annual licence relief, and continuous fuel tax exemption)
we cannot do this if EVs increase much .... 650cc BMW, anyone ?

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Who cares, 99% of the BMW sales are overweight, underpowered, overpriced, badly-designed (as in bad looking), "fine examples" of German engineering. When you have money overflowing from EU and German tax payers plus huge profits from the premium automotive sector you can afford to green wash. Socialism, I mean green sorry, is able to exist with other people's money

Wonder all those EU fines and taxes are taken... Certainly not to the benefit of Europe, but to those enterprises allied in the sacking of a continent and even more to a country that manages to change prime-ministers and presidents of other European countries at it's mere command. Socialist democracy, anyone? I could give two sh*ts if that metro sexual BMW is the "most advanced car" (a Nissan GT-R is clearly the most advanced production car nowadays).

BMW should have stopped in the 90's. Al the rest that came after are atrocities and they are not even the best handling or most performing cars anymore. Germany should burn its own green renewables (MONEY BILLS) and not take other people's money to flourish the bad image of their enterprises

Enough said

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Edit: And if you live in El Hierro (Canary Islands) where they´re first island to be self-suficient with 100% renewable energy, EV´s literally produce no emissions at all

And I make women pregnant using poetry. No emissions exists only after being brainwashed. No such thing exists, even nature pollutes and has impacts on the environment. See rape seed plantations

Every time I asked about the total compensation hybrids have after all considered (production, use and end-of-life) not a SINGLE manufacturer was able to tell me the outcome was better than an average car. No salesman would ever dare tell that, as they are probably warned not to say anything. All they say is babble like "we recycle the batteries". Ok mate, I asked about the compensation... The answer never comes

EV's, hybrids and fluorescent lamps are all the same to me. They are great on paper and nanny government will do everything on their power to force you buying them. As well as groups of pressure who have the "right" to enforce lifestyles to other people, like greenies and PC f*gs. Later, the outcome is ever a problem.

Fluorescent lamps served Europe to fake energy reduction statistics and transfer the problem of overpopulation/under-generation foward. Also served the manufacturers that now produce lamps WITHOUT TAXES. Even those producing in China with no respect to most basic regulations on environment

Now we are all alerted by the new emergency to change them to LED lamps. Apparently now they tell us (as if no one knew...) fluorescent lamps are hazardous after end-of-life and their production makes the outcome not really beautiful in comparison to normal lamps. Well then, a new goal to the "advanced, informed, welfared" European citizen to brag about and push on social networks and cafes and other futilities

[Andres125sx]

your Vancouver source does not say what you say as above

If you´re talking about a smart fortwo polluting less than a Nissan leaf electric with electricity from 100% coal plants, you´re comparing apples to oranges. Fortwo does weight 790kg and provide 40-70bhp, Leaf does weight 1400kg and provide 110bhp

Anycase that´s not the comparison to do as there´s no country where electricity comes 100% from coal plants, if you want to discuss the subject seriously, we can do it but please, explain what you´re trying to say.

more importantly .....
surely Spain has not achieved more than 50% renewable energy, it has achieved more than 50% renewable electricity ?
a very different thing

Yes, obviously, we´re talking about electricity, sorry for the big mistake

the decarbonisation is a lot less than the impression my UK government is giving
because they are making the same misrepresentation as yours above
also many 'renewables' eg biofuel and biomass combustion do not give better than about 50% carbon reduction

Who said the world will be perfectly clean and pure with EV substituding ICEs? I didn´t read that anywhere.

But it will be a lot more clean than it is now. Can you agree with this?


Or you are one of those who think if you pollute 8 units and have the option to pollute 3 units you´ll continue polluting 8 units because 3 is not 0?

Very common argument between those who don´t like EV´s, and completely absurd if you ask me, I hope you´re not saying this

[Andres125sx]

When you have money overflowing from EU and German tax payers plus huge profits from the premium automotive sector you can afford to green wash. Socialism, I mean green sorry, is able to exist with other people's money

Now what BMW does with their money, money earned when people decided to pay for their cars, is called socialism...

even nature pollutes and has impacts on the environment. See rape seed plantations

Plantations are an example of nature?

Edit: And if you live in El Hierro (Canary Islands) where they´re first island to be self-suficient with 100% renewable energy, EV´s literally produce no emissions at all

And I make women pregnant using poetry. No emissions exists only after being brainwashed.

And obviously it would be better if they continue importing petrol and gas instead of switching to eolic electricity, right?

Enough said

Sure.

It´s a shame I can´t downvote

[Tommy Cookers]

@ Andres
you are arguing against things that I did not say (almost as though I had said them)
we could continue that, or not ?

I was arguing against the inefficient UK policy, which might be better served by takeup of the renge extender hybrid version
one thihg I have argued against is the modern 'need' for 150 hp in everyday cars, as surely 50 hp is ample
'back in the day' our family car was a twin-cylinder 700cc BMW


@ Agenda
I suggested for 40 years that rapeseed/canola oil crops in growth diffuse oil pollutantion ('unburned hydrocarbon)' into the atmosphere
do you have any source of information on this pollution mechanism ??
(my searches have never found any information, though a retiring BBC TV weatherman seemed to show this as a smog source)


btw
our BBC TV has just shown us that polluted clouds have (suspended within) more (but smaller) water droplets
and that this is the mechanism by which traditional pollution contributed to decreased ocean surface temperatures
and so reduced the number and severity of hurricanes
in cutting this pollution we have increased the number and severity of hurricanes
the BBC has said this

the 'developed' countries have spent many billions on removing most of the Sulphur emissions from power generation (FGD)
and are now spending hundreds of millions via the UN on programmes to save the cilmate using special machines to emit Sulphur