Help of set up knowledge from lower formulae?

[raymondu999]

Hey all. I was just wondering on set up, based on several comments diResta said yesterday (he didn't know what he wanted from an F1 car yet, but Adrian did). I'd assume GP2 cars are similar in terms of setting up to formula 1 cars, and gp2-experienced drivers will have a better grasp on what/how to set up on their cars to suit their driving. But how about tin-top drivers? Like ex-DTM (well he's the current DTM champ, but still) di Resta. Would that have helped him? I don't presume it would've helped too much, would it? Or would it perhaps have even hindered him a bit, in terms of setup philosophy?

[McG]

I would think it would help to a certain extent coming from slower cars, but F1 is such a big step up. I think the answer is in your question really.

[tuj]

open wheel aero-dependent cars I believe are more difficult to setup than a sportscar. First off, you may or may not have heave/pitch springs/dampers on the open-wheel racer, maybe at both front and rear depending on the setup. Secondly, ride-height becomes more important than suspension compliance because the aero grip outweights the mechanical grip available. Also much of the 'suspension' in an open-wheel car comes from the sidewalls of the tires, rather than the springs/torsion bars. Therefore I think all things being equal, a driver with GP2 setup experience will have the edge over a DTM or other sportscar-series racer when it comes to setting up an F1 car.

[wesley123]

Since drivers don't actually set up their cars and merely give feedback I do not think it is really dependent on what platform you are coming from. Saying that you have an understeering car isn't any different saying it in DTM than F3 for example.

I'd say in the end it comes from experience, trying out different things and learning from the failures. Just like with everything it's something where you win and lose, and learn from those experiences. I don't see why such experiences would be any different in an Open wheeler or a Touring Car.

[tuj]

" Saying that you have an understeering car isn't any different saying it in DTM than F3 for example."

I don't know if I agree. What kind of df levels do the DTM cars make? It's still something like 400-600lbs right? And F3 makes maybe twice that on a much lower weight vehicle? So my point being, a driver could have high-speed understeer which probably means the aero isn't working well enough at the front and he needs more wing angle, or he could have low-speed understeer which might point to the anti-roll/t-bar being too stiff at the front.

It's sort of like Formula Vee vs. Formula Atlantic or Formula Mazda. The Vee cars have no wings and a simple suspension, while the Atlantic cars have significant downforce, so much so that you need to learn to brake differently (eg. jump on the brakes very hard at high speed and then taper off as aero grip goes away).

[wesley123]

Does that really matter for the feedback you are giving? The driver does not setup his car, he merely gives feedback. And saying that you car has understeer isn't any different per class. The solution might be different, but that is not the drivers territory since he doesn't set up the car.

As a driver itself you might have issues with the car because it is different. I'd say you drive a DTM car differently than a F1 car, and that might give some issues as you are unfamiliar with the car, and that would probably be less so when you are coming from GP2.

[tuj]

I guess the question really comes down to: why are some drivers good at giving feedback and others seem to struggle?

[timbo]

I guess the question really comes down to: why are some drivers good at giving feedback and others seem to struggle?

I think a lot of different factors might play into this, and not necessarily their experience earlier in their careers.

[Pierce89]

" Saying that you have an understeering car isn't any different saying it in DTM than F3 for example."

I don't know if I agree. What kind of df levels do the DTM cars make? It's still something like 400-600lbs right? And F3 makes maybe twice that on a much lower weight vehicle? So my point being, a driver could have high-speed understeer which probably means the aero isn't working well enough at the front and he needs more wing angle, or he could have low-speed understeer which might point to the anti-roll/t-bar being too stiff at the front.

It's sort of like Formula Vee vs. Formula Atlantic or Formula Mazda. The Vee cars have no wings and a simple suspension, while the Atlantic cars have significant downforce, so much so that you need to learn to brake differently (eg. jump on the brakes very hard at high speed and then taper off as aero grip goes away).

Uhh no. DTM cars have roughly the same down force to weight ratio as an f3 car ie it has twice the weight and twice the down force. DTM cars have a cl of roughly. -2.0 . They are more like a lmp car than a gt car. They even have a carbon monocoque.

DTM cars also have EXTREME pitch and ride height sensitivity similar to a high df open wheeler.

[tuj]

"DTM cars also have EXTREME pitch and ride height sensitivity similar to a high df open wheeler."

Thank you, I did not know that.