Run-Off Area Alternatives

[autogyro]

You could replace the astro turf with my flexible surface.
It would be less costly.

[langwadt]

it is only needed a few key places on any given track, just paint some chalk lines about a cars width outside the track, anything white on a tire and you get a drive-through

[Moxie]

it is only needed a few key places on any given track, just paint some chalk lines about a cars width outside the track, anything white on a tire and you get a drive-through

Drive through??? How about a DNF!!! I agree with eliminating the physical consequences of leaving the racing surface, but the competition consequences should remain.

[langwadt]

it is only needed a few key places on any given track, just paint some chalk lines about a cars width outside the track, anything white on a tire and you get a drive-through

Drive through??? How about a DNF!!! I agree with eliminating the physical consequences of leaving the racing surface, but the competition consequences should remain.

people want to see the cars driving on the track, maybe drive through isn't enough so give them a minute, a lap put them last

[SectorOne]

You could replace the astro turf with my flexible surface.
It would be less costly.

Sounds good, i´ll have to read up on your flexible surface.

No, I'm talking about a car who's driver loses control at 33% of points in that corner. At 33% of points, the car is going to go straight on, passing only over astroturf, and straight into the barrier at high speed.

Well it´s not teflon. If he looses the front he will be able to get in on a tarmac piece easy.
If he looses the rear then he´s in trouble with or without astro-turf lines.

The angle of them is also to give an idea, i just made a quick guess on lines that follows the racing line in about 30 seconds in Photoshop.

[Moxie]

it is only needed a few key places on any given track, just paint some chalk lines about a cars width outside the track, anything white on a tire and you get a drive-through

Drive through??? How about a DNF!!! I agree with eliminating the physical consequences of leaving the racing surface, but the competition consequences should remain.

people want to see the cars driving on the track, maybe drive through isn't enough so give them a minute, a lap put them last

Not so long ago, leaving the racing surface at any time meant wrecked race cars, loss of very expensive equipment, and potential driver injury or death. I don't want people to die for my entertainment, but these days drivers leave the track in practice, in qualifying and in the race over and over again. The penalties for leaving the racing surface must be severe.

I like the white chalk idea, but I'd prefer to see the following penalties.

Infraction during practice...no penalty

Infraction during qualifying...start at the back of the field (comparable to a team working through the night to rebuild a damaged car)

Infraction during race...10 minute stop (you just screwed up and put your car into an imaginary wall, so now Caterham and Marussia have a chance to finish ahead of you, but at least you can entertain the crowds and show your sponsor's logos)

[FW17]

I don't want people to die for my entertainment,

You got it all wrong

None of the drivers who crashed and died did it for your entertainment, they where doing it for their own pleasure and your entertainment (of watching them race not crash) was probably never on their list (certainly not BE).

[beelsebob]

You could replace the astro turf with my flexible surface.
It would be less costly.

Sounds good, i´ll have to read up on your flexible surface.

No, I'm talking about a car who's driver loses control at 33% of points in that corner. At 33% of points, the car is going to go straight on, passing only over astroturf, and straight into the barrier at high speed.

Well it´s not teflon. If he looses the front he will be able to get in on a tarmac piece easy.
If he looses the rear then he´s in trouble with or without astro-turf lines.

No, if he looses the rear, then he's decelerating at 2-3g on tarmac (simply due to sliding sideways on it), or at 0.5g on astroturf. The former is likely to cause him to stop, the latter is likely to cause him to end up in a barrier.

The angle of them is also to give an idea, i just made a quick guess on lines that follows the racing line in about 30 seconds in Photoshop.

That's exactly the issue though - the tangent to the racing line is exactly the one that you want to have maximum deceleration. Adding slippery sections at tangents to the racing line is idiotic.

[SectorOne]

No, if he looses the rear, then he's decelerating at 2-3g on tarmac (simply due to sliding sideways on it), or at 0.5g on astroturf. The former is likely to cause him to stop, the latter is likely to cause him to end up in a barrier.

First of all i´d love to see that data.

Second of all, i doubt it, he will always have a few wheels on the tarmac. In fact the astro turf with it´s lower grip could help the driver in some cases.

That's exactly the issue though - the tangent to the racing line is exactly the one that you want to have maximum deceleration. Adding slippery sections at tangents to the racing line is idiotic.

And that´s exactly why the black lines will follow the racing line, making straight off shoot lines from the racing line.
That´s the whole reason the lines are curved the way they are.

[NTS]

I like the white chalk idea, but I'd prefer to see the following penalties.
- Infraction during practice...no penalty
- Infraction during qualifying...start at the back of the field (comparable to a team working through the night to rebuild a damaged car)
- Infraction during race...10 minute stop (you just screwed up and put your car into an imaginary wall, so now Caterham and Marussia have a chance to finish ahead of you, but at least you can entertain the crowds and show your sponsor's logos)

I agree, although I would change the qualifying penalty into a deleted lap and the race penalty into 10 sec stop/go penalty that is not combined with a pitstop. In both cases you deter drivers from doing it since it brings a big disadvantage yet, you still allow them a chance to salvage the race which makes for great racing to watch.

Now somebody needs to find a method of "painting the wheels white" that works both in dry and in wet conditions and still washes off in about 1 lap so you can see the second time it happens as well. Probably such a thing can be made with some chemical engineering?

[CBeck113]

I like the white chalk idea, but I'd prefer to see the following penalties.
- Infraction during practice...no penalty
- Infraction during qualifying...start at the back of the field (comparable to a team working through the night to rebuild a damaged car)
- Infraction during race...10 minute stop (you just screwed up and put your car into an imaginary wall, so now Caterham and Marussia have a chance to finish ahead of you, but at least you can entertain the crowds and show your sponsor's logos)

I agree, although I would change the qualifying penalty into a deleted lap and the race penalty into 10 sec stop/go penalty that is not combined with a pitstop. In both cases you deter drivers from doing it since it brings a big disadvantage yet, you still allow them a chance to salvage the race which makes for great racing to watch.

Now somebody needs to find a method of "painting the wheels white" that works both in dry and in wet conditions and still washes off in about 1 lap so you can see the second time it happens as well. Probably such a thing can be made with some chemical engineering?

An inductive strip outside the paint coupled with the new titanium sparklers would be enough to tell if the cars are too far outside the track limits. Since the floor is a fixed width (300mm), the strip would have to be 1200mm behind the white stripe to have 100% certainty that the car was over with all four tires. Couple the warning with the normal gps and you know who it was. And if two or more cars are fighting for position, the stewards should be watching anyway...

[Moxie]

I agree, although I would change the qualifying penalty into a deleted lap and the race penalty into 10 sec stop/go penalty that is not combined with a pitstop. In both cases you deter drivers from doing it since it brings a big disadvantage yet, you still allow them a chance to salvage the race which makes for great racing to watch.

I understand the entertainment value of giving the penalized car a chance to salvage the race. However, a competitor at the back of the field who manages to keep his car on the track is then placed at a distinct competitive disadvantage if leading cars are allowed to break the rules, yet still come out somewhere in the middle of the field. A car that leaves the racing surface should be sent behind the last place car. If that car is a lap down, then the offender is penalized accordingly. There should not be a competitive penalty for keeping the car on the track.

[strad]

There should not be a competitive penalty for keeping the car on the track.

Good point Moxie.
About the time they actually enforce the rule with say a one lap penalty, see how fast they learn to keep it on track.

[Moxie]

An inductive strip outside the paint coupled with the new titanium sparklers would be enough to tell if the cars are too far outside the track limits. Since the floor is a fixed width (300mm), the strip would have to be 1200mm behind the white stripe to have 100% certainty that the car was over with all four tires. Couple the warning with the normal gps and you know who it was. And if two or more cars are fighting for position, the stewards should be watching anyway...

I don't know what an inductive strip is, but we may be thinking alike.

My neighbor has a device called an Invisible Fence for his dog. His dog wears a special collar, and if he goes out of bounds, he receives a painful electric shock!!! The fence itself is a wire that is buried in the yard, but as it crosses the driveway it is covered my asphalt sealing material. No! No! No! You warped nerds, I am not suggesting that the drivers wear the shock collars (although one could argue that Maldonado probably deserves it). The out of bounds line can be painted, and the wire can be places within the line. So spectators can see the boundary. Rather than delivering an electrical shock to the driver, the impulse could trigger some other indicators, a light on the steering wheel, and a light on the T-bar which indicate infraction to the driver and the spectators. It would also send a telemetry signal to race control.

This idea does a few things.

It would be relatively inexpensive.

It lets the spectators and drivers alike see the boundary, and gives immediate indication of the infraction, rather than waiting 15 laps for the stewards to decide what to do.

It also places the stewards in a defensive position. Rather than letting them decide whether an infraction is even to be investigated, they will be confronted immediately with two pieces of evidence, video and telemetry data,that the infraction has occurred. The spectators will know it, and the stewards will be forced to explain why they chose not to enforce the penalty.

[Outlaw]

I would hate to see another rule where someone has to make a judgement call and then apply a penalty after a decision.

I think the best way would be to make the act of leaving the official track boundaries it's own punishment. I like the idea of a low grip area before the runoff so the driver will be punished (slowed) simply by leaving the official racing surface.

No rules, electronics, monitoring or outside decisions needed. If you leave the "track" you would go slower.