Take a look people

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
trinidefender
trinidefender
318
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Take a look people

Post

Just for s**ts and giggles I'm gnna post this and see what people have to say about it. Let the conspiracy theories fly: http://higherperspective.com/2014/09/sa ... source=MAM

When challenged how this was probably a hoax of some sort by a commenter another commenter posted this: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl500740t

Can anybody even attempt to see if ANYTHING in the second link makes the slightest bit of sense.

This all gave me quite the laugh

gruntguru
gruntguru
568
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 07:43

Re: Take a look people

Post

The second link is legit research. Does it validate the concept shown in the first link? I don't think so.

"The company is now preparing to produce the series" Yeah right, which century?
je suis charlie

Greg Locock
Greg Locock
238
Joined: 30 Jun 2012, 00:48

Re: Take a look people

Post

Rather a lot of google hits, and no actual journalism at all, just endless recycling of the PR hype.

Moxie
Moxie
5
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 20:58

Re: Take a look people

Post

http://sciencewithalice.blogspot.com/20 ... works.html
http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/a ... ithium.cfm

A salt water battery works. The problem is one of efficiency.

Firstly, the chemical reactions take place on the surfaces of the anode and cathode. I suppose that the advances of nanotechnology will allow anode and cathode structures to be built that would greatly increase flow.

Secondly, as stated in one of my references, a big advantage of lithium is the small size of the atom. For each electron stripped from the atom, sodium carries nearly four time as much mass.

Is salt water battery technology worth researching?...ABSOLUTELY!
Is anyone really ready to build a salt water car?...I'm skeptical.

As for the second reference from the original post: i think the point was to show the use of nanoscale technology for the structure of the anode and cathode in a sulfur based battery.

trinidefender
trinidefender
318
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Take a look people

Post

Honestly I'm not really up to scratch with battery technology apart from what is used in the aviation world (li-ion, li-po, lead acid and NiCd although the last one is being phased out in aviation because of massive thermal runaway problems it has had in the past).

Ok so what exactly will the anode and cathode have to be made of?

Secondly? When the battery is depleted how is it recharged? Does it just have to be emptied and replaced with new saltwater? Do the anode and cathode need to be replaced?

Moxie
Moxie
5
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 20:58

Re: Take a look people

Post

http://eburn.scripts.mit.edu/pened/doku ... hers.guide

I'm not being a smarta$$ by posting links to children's educational sites. I find that they are better at explaining this stuff than I am. In fact I found them very helpful in refreshing my own understanding as it has been a long time since I have exercised my chemistry muscles.

The anode will will be made of a substance that carries a positive charge.
The cathode will be made of a substance that carries a negative charge.

Whether or not a battery can recharged depends on the specific chemicals used. The reverse reactions may require so much energy as to make recharging terribly inefficient. Aside from the basics covered by the education sites, I can't speak to what substances are currently used for anodes and cathodes.

Lycoming
Lycoming
106
Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: Take a look people

Post

...so it's just a battery, in which case the first link is incredibly misleading because it implies that the salt water is the energy source.

Moxie
Moxie
5
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 20:58

Re: Take a look people

Post

Lycoming wrote:...so it's just a battery, in which case the first link is incredibly misleading because it implies that the salt water is the energy source.
As far as I can tell, yes...I think.

In the first link the video gives no information at all, and the associated text states " the flow cell system derives it's energy from the electrochemical reaction created by two electrolyte solutions." This is such a general statement that it is almost as informative as the video. I can't remember any specific chemical combinations, it has been 20 years since I studied this stuff, so bear with me.

Electrolytes are solutions of ions. Table salt is composed of two ions, sodium which carries a positive charge, and chlorine which carries a negative charge. When water is absent they combine to form the solid crystalline structure that we shake on our food, but when dissolved in water the ions separate and move freely within the water. There are many other substances that exist as salts, for example potassium phosphate. Therefore in this two electrolyte solution the sodium is now free to interact with the phosphate and the potassium is free to interact with the chloride. Now whether or not there is a reaction depends not only upon the ions but also their concentrations as well as temperature and pressure. If such interaction does take place a new salt will be formed which will then precipitate out of solution until dynamic equilibrium is established, again dependent upon temperature and pressure.

So they have a two electrolyte solution...whoopsie f-ing doo. They have provided an eighth grade general science description of a cutting edge technology...my BS detector is on high alert.

The second link, however is a little more informative. " "Lithium poly sulfide flow cathodes of this architecture exhibit electrochemical activity that is distributed throughout the volume of flow electrodes rather than being confined to surfaces of stationary current collectors." It sounds as if the electrolyte solution literally flows through the electrode, as that electrode is composed of nano particles.

Now I do not know the commentators or their relationships to the people behind the salt water car project, but if this is a knowledgable response to criticism, then I would have to say that this project centers on battery design rather than the chemical reaction. Support for my opinion is also provided in the header of the video "Quant-e Sportlimousine with nanoFLOWCELL drive.

I must make it clear that I am attempting to put the clues together without much information.