Formula E

[mzso]

Live streaming would be better than sky.

Well, in the article it's stated that sky will stream it for free.

[autogyro]

While there are still criminals controlling the world's media, things like FE will stand no chance of independent growth.
Why cant the obviously clever guys on this forum not see what is blindingly obvious.
Do you really think F1 will allow FE to develop without control.
Peeeerlease.

[Waywardism]

I'm really excited to see this kick off next weekend. I particularly like how practise, qualy and the race will all take place on the same day.

There are a couple of things that are confusing/concerning me though. From http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/guide/rules-and-regs.aspx :

ePrix

Races will begin by standing start and last for approximately one hour with drivers making one mandatory pit stop in order to change cars.

Are they seriously going to change cars in a pitstop? That seems like madness to me, I mean I can see the pitstops being the main deciding factor in who wins the race.

Championship

The FIA Formula E Championship will consist of both a drivers and a teams' championship. A driver's end of season total is made up of his/her best results less one.

Less one what, exactly?

[Andres125sx]

While there are still criminals controlling the world's media, things like FE will stand no chance of independent growth.

Those criminals have one single interest, money. If FE succed and they see the chance to earn more money, FE will receive more coverage, it is this simple

Why cant the obviously clever guys on this forum not see what is blindingly obvious.

IMHO what is blindigbly obvious is they only worry about money, maybe it´s you who are so focused on your own interests wich are not attended (I perfectly understand your frustration) who think they don´t want any innovation at all?

Do you really think F1 will allow FE to develop without control.

F1 has no power over FE, it´s FIA who control both championships. And as always, they only focus on money. Obviously FIA will never allow GP2, World Series or any other championship to develop to the point of being a threat for F1, but FE is completely different to any previous FIA championship because it´s electric, wich means two things, they can grow as a parallel championship to F1, and it will attract new sponsors (battery manufactures, electric motors, electronic controllers, even renewable energy companies could be attracted by this championship), so if they see the chance to earn more money because new companies who had never been interested on racing now are willing to invest.... Do you really think they will reject it?

[mzso]

F1 has no power over FE, it´s FIA who control both championships. And as always, they only focus on money. Obviously FIA will never allow GP2, World Series or any other championship to develop to the point of being a threat for F1, but FE is completely different to any previous FIA championship because it´s electric, wich means two things, they can grow as a parallel championship to F1, and it will attract new sponsors (battery manufactures, electric motors, electronic controllers, even renewable energy companies could be attracted by this championship), so if they see the chance to earn more money because new companies who had never been interested on racing now are willing to invest.... Do you really think they will reject it?

Well, unless FIA is in the pocket of Ecclestone and other F1 rich geezers, which is unfortunately rather likely. Todt is definitely closely related to F1.

[J.A.W.]

Are 'Greenie' enviro-types actually really interested in motorsport?

Isn't all this 'eco-friendly' race-tech stuff - in fact - a kind of PC-smokescreen ( if that's not an oxymoron) as sop,
- to shepherd the business model that F-1 has been captured by?

However, maybe the idea suggested by Autogyro - of a electrified ground grid equipped race circuit allowing for minimal
battery/capacitor ballast - could provide for some meaningfully competitive racing..

[Andres125sx]

Are 'Greenie' enviro-types actually really interested in motorsport?

Yes, I am

It looks like you have some strong prejudices about people who care about environement, and there are a lot of people who care about environement apart of those activist you have in your mind

[Andres125sx]

F1 has no power over FE, it´s FIA who control both championships. And as always, they only focus on money. Obviously FIA will never allow GP2, World Series or any other championship to develop to the point of being a threat for F1, but FE is completely different to any previous FIA championship because it´s electric, wich means two things, they can grow as a parallel championship to F1, and it will attract new sponsors (battery manufactures, electric motors, electronic controllers, even renewable energy companies could be attracted by this championship), so if they see the chance to earn more money because new companies who had never been interested on racing now are willing to invest.... Do you really think they will reject it?

Well, unless FIA is in the pocket of Ecclestone and other F1 rich geezers, which is unfortunately rather likely. Todt is definitely closely related to F1.

I´d say their friendship is not as strong as their avarice

[mzso]

Are 'Greenie' enviro-types actually really interested in motorsport?

You don't need to be a "greenie" to have a preference for electric cars.
Electric motors are just better. Better power density, torque characteristics, efficiency, noise, reliability: practically everything. That's interesting in itself in my opinion.
Now if only they would make a powerful formula, with direct drive (lacking the squeaky, wasteful reduction gears. )

[J.A.W.]

Are 'Greenie' enviro-types actually really interested in motorsport?

You don't need to be a "greenie" to have a preference for electric cars.
Electric motors are just better. Better power density, torque characteristics, efficiency, noise, reliability: practically everything. That's interesting in itself in my opinion.
Now if only they would make a powerful formula, with direct drive (lacking the squeaky, wasteful reduction gears. )

But.. ..electric mills are pretty anodyne, max torque available just off stall is - too easy, & having to lug around
massive battery/ballast is a drag, so racing-wise, technical/driving spectacle is somewhat lacking - compared to ICE.

[andylaurence]

But.. ..electric mills are pretty anodyne, max torque available just off stall is - too easy, & having to lug around massive battery/ballast is a drag, so racing-wise, technical/driving spectacle is somewhat lacking - compared to ICE.

That depends on how long your race is. These battery packs push out more than 30bhp in short busts (half that in a sustained fashion) and weigh just 1.5kg. My car would need just 9kg of batteries to exceed the power output of its current engine. I'd need a hefty generator to recharge in the pits though...

[Andres125sx]

But.. ..electric mills are pretty anodyne, max torque available just off stall is..

What ICE designers have been trying to match for more than a century.... without success

having to lug around massive battery/ballast is a drag, so racing-wise, technical/driving spectacle is somewhat lacking - compared to ICE.

Yes, first seasson ever of FE will be worse than F1´s 64th seasson, obviously

But this is the future, so the sooner they start developing this technology (racing wise) the better. Right now the battery is a huge ballast that still don´t provide enough juice, that´s the truth, but this will change pretty soon (search LiS and LiO batteries), so it´s necessary to start developing the technology becasue there has never been a serious electric competition, wich means nobody has too much experience pushing electric components to its limits or designing electric racing cars. For example, right now they´re a copy of ICE cars, but they use a small electric motor and a huge number of battery cells, but pretty small, wich means you can distribute them as you want for better handling/weight distribution

Electric cars are still in its infancy, FE is pretty conservative right now because of this and because of the battery limitations. But give it some time...

[Andres125sx]

But.. ..electric mills are pretty anodyne, max torque available just off stall is - too easy, & having to lug around massive battery/ballast is a drag, so racing-wise, technical/driving spectacle is somewhat lacking - compared to ICE.

That depends on how long your race is. These battery packs push out more than 30bhp in short busts (half that in a sustained fashion) and weigh just 1.5kg. My car would need just 9kg of batteries to exceed the power output of its current engine. I'd need a hefty generator to recharge in the pits though...

Problem is at 65C discharge rate (for continuous discharge) the race would need to be one lap..... on a really short track, it´d have problems completing one lap at monaco

Discharge rate or power output is not a problem with lipo batteries for a long time, the only problem now is energy density, we need more juice on the same or lower weight to be able to complete a decent race


PS, I see HK is famous, I´m platinum member there

[machin]

following that link the numbers in the spec suggest the 30bhp as per your post, but then further down the page it says "power density approaching 7.5kw per kg", which is considerably less... whether this actually refers to the lower discharge rate I don't know... 4mm bullet connector also seems a bit small doesn't it (I'm comparing to typical starter cable sizes for example)....???

[andylaurence]

But.. ..electric mills are pretty anodyne, max torque available just off stall is - too easy, & having to lug around massive battery/ballast is a drag, so racing-wise, technical/driving spectacle is somewhat lacking - compared to ICE.

That depends on how long your race is. These battery packs push out more than 30bhp in short busts (half that in a sustained fashion) and weigh just 1.5kg. My car would need just 9kg of batteries to exceed the power output of its current engine. I'd need a hefty generator to recharge in the pits though...

Problem is at 65C discharge rate (for continuous discharge) the race would need to be one lap..... on a really short track, it´d have problems completing one lap at monaco

That's my point exactly. My races are that long. My fastest class record is 34.32 seconds. I don't log throttle position, so I don't know how much time is spent flat out, but I'd wager it's barely more than half that time. On that basis, 130C discharge rates are viable and 65C discharge is ample. Given that the longer events are up to 140 seconds in length and that a day's racing consists of 3-7 minutes behind the wheel, I'd rather bet on 15C discharge in real terms. I could go for something like these cells, which have a greater energy density but a lower peak power output. To match my current engine, I'd need ~80kg at 10C, which would let me run a whole event without recharging, but that pack would be capable of 450bhp peak, which is somewhat over-specced. My current engine is 69kg, but by going electric, I can ditch the engine, gearbox, exhaust, ECU, fuel tank, radiator, coolant, oil, etc. All that's needed to replace all of that is a motor, controller and battery pack.