Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

I don´t think adaptability is the problem here, not after 13 GPs

If it is, then I think we could say Kimi is not that good. If a driver needs some specific conditions to be fast, then he´s not a fast driver, but a driver who can be fast under some specific conditions, from time to time. Perez for example.

But I think Kimi´s problem is motivation, his car is just too slow, he´s strugling to pass Q2, not the goal he was targeting when signing with Ferrari again

Gaz.
Gaz.
4
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 09:53

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Andres125sx wrote:I don´t think adaptability is the problem here, not after 13 GPs

If it is, then I think we could say Kimi is not that good. If a driver needs some specific conditions to be fast, then he´s not a fast driver, but a driver who can be fast under some specific conditions, from time to time. Perez for example.

But I think Kimi´s problem is motivation, his car is just too slow, he´s strugling to pass Q2, not the goal he was targeting when signing with Ferrari again
Is the chap not earning five million Euros a year? Is that not motivation enough? It would take him 120 years to earn that on an average Finnish salary.

The odd thing is that the few that have worked with him and posted either here or on Pistonheads have said he works really hard yet his public perception is quite opposite to this reality.
Forza Jules

ss.vamsikrishna
ss.vamsikrishna
0
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 14:02
Location: USA

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Have you seen the last 4 races, Raikkonen was as fast as Alonso or even faster at times.
Today in Singapore car gave up in Q3 otherwise he was faster than Alonso.
I can see that Raikkonen will be faster than Alonso rest of the season.

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Andres125sx wrote:I don´t think adaptability is the problem here, not after 13 GPs

If it is, then I think we could say Kimi is not that good. If a driver needs some specific conditions to be fast, then he´s not a fast driver, but a driver who can be fast under some specific conditions, from time to time. Perez for example.

But I think Kimi´s problem is motivation, his car is just too slow, he´s strugling to pass Q2, not the goal he was targeting when signing with Ferrari again

I think it is adaptability pure and simple. Some drivers are soo used to driving one way that they require the car to be just right for them to be fast, off the top of my mind button, vettel, massa and raikkonen are four people with obvious examples you can point to.

I think Alonso's trick is that he sets the car up to oversteer and controls the rear with the throttle, where as Kimi needs a car to have a good front end.

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Gaz. wrote:Is the chap not earning five million Euros a year? Is that not motivation enough?
No. Othewise he would have never switched to WRC

There are tons of examples were top drivers lost motivation, Stoner could have earned some good million per seasson for many seassons, but even so he lost motivation

Money is seen very different for those who have always had more than they need

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

ss.vamsikrishna wrote:Have you seen the last 4 races, Raikkonen was as fast as Alonso or even faster at times.
Today in Singapore car gave up in Q3 otherwise he was faster than Alonso.
I can see that Raikkonen will be faster than Alonso rest of the season.
I'm sorry but :lol: :lol:
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

ss.vamsikrishna wrote:Have you seen the last 4 races, Raikkonen was as fast as Alonso or even faster at times.
Today in Singapore car gave up in Q3 otherwise he was faster than Alonso.
Where did you get that from?

He was faster only at Q1, wich is not very representative. Alonso was faster at Q2 and also in Q3 before Kimi´s car gave up

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

JimClarkFan wrote:I think it is adaptability pure and simple. Some drivers are soo used to driving one way that they require the car to be just right for them to be fast, off the top of my mind button, vettel, massa and raikkonen are four people with obvious examples you can point to.
Maybe, but that do not explain he was beaten by Massa in 2008, and he won the championship with the same car previous seasson. I think adaptability can´t explain that, lack of motivation probably can. Different seasson, but it shows Kimi´s personality

Probably both reassons are true tough

User avatar
SectorOne
166
Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
Gaz. wrote:Is the chap not earning five million Euros a year? Is that not motivation enough?
No. Othewise he would have never switched to WRC
This doesn´t make much sense. If anything by your logic the fact that he´s not in WRC anymore is proof he´s motivated for F1.
(otherwise he would have stayed put in WRC)
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
JimClarkFan wrote:I think it is adaptability pure and simple. Some drivers are soo used to driving one way that they require the car to be just right for them to be fast, off the top of my mind button, vettel, massa and raikkonen are four people with obvious examples you can point to.
Maybe, but that do not explain he was beaten by Massa in 2008, and he won the championship with the same car previous seasson. I think adaptability can´t explain that, lack of motivation probably can. Different seasson, but it shows Kimi´s personality

Probably both reassons are true tough
I can see what you mean, Kimi does seem to have motivation problems maybe that is unfair from the outside looking in, I don't know. If I was Ferrari I would not have taken him back.

User avatar
Steven
Owner
Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

As for 2008, it's quite obvious Kimi lacked motivation. Things turned against him at Ferrari and he felt uncomfortable with the whole situation. It worsened throughout the season until Ferrari decided to pay him his usual salary in 2009 but get rid of him either way.

This year (and it was the case at Lotus too), Ferrari had to make considerable modifications to the steering system as Raikkonen wants a more delicate feel that most drivers. Lotus managed it following more than a year of modifications. Ferrari this year have made progress, but the team have admitted that they are limited in what more they can do until next season. This is surely influencing Raikkonen's performances.

Additionally, as mentioned before, the "adaptability" from Alonso comes from his throwing driving style. It was most obvious during his Renault days, where he triggered understeer on corner entry. It's probably less important these days with the Pirellis, but Raikkonen is a much smoother driver and hence needs the car to be more balanced before being able to run at the limit.

Rikhart
Rikhart
23
Joined: 10 Feb 2009, 20:21

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Where does this "1 second difference" come from? They are 1/2 tenths apart most of the time, when both have no issues.

xDama
xDama
2
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 16:51

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

Raikkonen has had a lot of bad luck this year as well. How many FP-sessions has he missed or lost important time due to technical issues? Almost every weekend there've been problems! Alonso has only had a fraction of this. And with the current regulations, as soon as you miss a session, you're playing catch up.

Don't get me wrong, Alonso is driving like a master, but if Kimi's got a good car and no bad luck, they're equally fast. This weekend is a good example (including his technical problems in Q).
"I race to win, and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver." - Ayrton Senna

User avatar
MOWOG
24
Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 15:46
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

There's a reason why most observers tag Alonso as the best driver currently in Formula One. Whether or not he is faster than Kimi in practice or qualifying is interesting but ultimately irrelevant. No one can take a car - any car - and wring the maximum performance possible out of it consistently race after race the way Alonso can.

As he told the press just this week, "I have three times the points of the other Ferrari driver." Such things do not happen by accident or merely because of good fortune. :-s
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Is Alonso this fast or Räikkönen that slow?

Post

And therefore it means Alonso can drive anything! He is more adaptable. Kimi needs everything to his liking or else he is nowhere... (2008, first half of 2009). When it all works though, his driving is a feast for the eyes.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028