Making F1 Driving more challenging

[mrluke]

I think it rather simple...

No more then 3, two way, buttons on the steering wheel (activated, or not activated as the only option)
Simple wing design, 1 piece only
Wider body
Narrow front wheels, Fat rear wheels
Steel brakes
No power steering
No pit to car communication (They can user Radio to communicatie, just no car telemetry, they can download this when the car comes in)
no car to pit communication (They can user Radio to communicatie, just no car telemetry, they can download this when the car comes in)
Engine unfreeze after midway point of the season

http://www.themastersseries.com/race-se ... ormula-one

Too much trying to keep cars like they were in the early 90s, not enough looking to the future.

F1 used to be daring, risky and hard work because the technology was pushing the boundaries of what was believed possible. Whereas now we have decided pushing the boundaries is too dangerous and the "spectacle" reflects that.

[strad]

I can't imagine turning the wheel at 3-5g every corner for 2 hours is all that easy.

Try imagining it WITHOUT power steering
Try imagining man handling those cars that wanted to get away and kill you with the same temperatures and even rougher conditions. ... hell some of those old timers didn't even have seat belts and only grip and abs held you in the car at all in those corners.
You really want to denigrate those that did what Lewis and many other modern drivers have said they wouldn't even attempt. Instead of worshiping these guys try looking at it realistically. Sure Button can compete in a triathlon but he doesn't have to drive under the stress of past generations. These guys wouldn't even get into the cars if they really thought they stood a 20% chance of dying.

[SectorOne]

You really want to denigrate those that did what Lewis and many other modern drivers have said they wouldn't even attempt.

because they were born in a entirely different era...
If Fangio was born today he would say the same. If Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel was born back in Fangio´s time none of them would say "hey where´s the seatbelts, this is dangerous" Because that concept never existed back then.

[Richard]

Indeed. If you go further back, Senna wouldn't be able to drive a chariot as well as Ben Hur. Modern soldiers are rubbish in sword fights. Modern farmers couldn't handle a horse drawn plough.

That doesn't mean the old sepia tinted folk are any better or worse than the current population, they're just different.

[strad]

et tu Richard?
I thought higher of you.
Those in the past were just as tough as any of todays drivers.
And for the record their attitudes were a lot tougher.
Find me a driver today as tough mentally or physically as Nuvolari.
The closest I can think of is Johnny Herbert.

[hollus]

Err, Kubica? Unfortunately he doesn't fit in a modern cockpit.
For the record, without seat belts you can not turn at 5G. Well, you can, but only once.

[strad]

No... And without them you expend a ton of energy holding yourself in at 3Gs.

I don't come here too argue.. IF you guys want to believe these guys could hold there predecessors jock straps let alone be their equals that's fine. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that.

[ESPImperium]

My proposals, which are achievable.

* Ban cascade wings on front wing, make cars understeer more.
* Standardised steering rack - Make power steering half as powerful as present. Aid yes, not do all the work.
* Standardised active suspension - Allow the driver to tune the ride, but only 3 times per Quali session & Race, unlimited in Fridays & P3. Also cuts costs.
* Re-Introduce the beam wing and increase rear wing width to 2008 size. Beam wing shall have a standardised and aero neutral section in the middle.
* DRS limits, each driver has 150 seconds (1.5 Minutes) per race of DRS, this can be used by driver when he wants - if his car will allow, and for how long, no stupid DRS zones.
* Tyre war - Two tyre companies will manufacture 3 compounds for the entire season. Every race each driver has 5 soft, 4 medium and 3 hard for the entire weekend. P1 drivers get an extra set of mediums. Tyre companies can make one change to a single compound per year as a joker. Hards last a maximum of 200Km/65%, Medium a maximum of 160Km/50% and Softs a maximum of 110km/35%. Each car has to run at least 2 compounds per race, allowing drivers to drive on a hard 2 stopper or more conservatively to a 1 stopper race. Pit windows yes, almost, but more Drivers/Racers battles.
* Steering wheels, limit them to 5 rotaries and 8 buttons or switches. Each button/switch does what it says it does, no Diff Magic crap. However if a Multifunction rotary needs to happen, one other rotary and three buttons car assigned to it permanently.
* Live telemetry is limited to just 32 streams per car, and must be open to all to see. Any more streams must be downloadable after a session. With this a ban on Mission Controls during a live session is also a must.
* Driver coaching, Bite Points and Dog Learning on the parade lap is fine, but no tech info on engine or fuel mixes or "where am slower" whilst the car is on the track, pit lane whilst a pit stop yes, track no. Track conversations must be limited to Weather, personal timings to that driver and no other.
* Bring that bloody nosecone up to the height of the front axle for gods sakes, give the aero guys something back.
* Make ERS systems free and open to development, but allow the teams to use them for 45 seconds a lap. Id open MGU-K, MGU-H, Control Electronics & Batteries open for free development, just as long as each component did not exceed 5 for the season.

[SectorOne]

No... And without them you expend a ton of energy holding yourself in at 3Gs.

You think Fangio and the boys had to deal with 3G cornering?
There´s no chance in hell those cars produced 3G with that suspension, CoG, tires etc.

A more realistic G force for that time is probably around 0,9G on a skidpad,

[emaren]

How to make it more challenging ?

Simple - more power, less grip, less braking ability.

- Way more power than the drivers can easily use. Mandate a minimum output level of an arbitrary number, say 1500hp.
- Way less grip than they currently have, if this is super hard tires or skinnier ones or maybe it is just way less front tire, I am not sure. But less ability to use the power would make it a bigger challenge.
- Way less aero reliance, hence permitting the slipstream moves. Pretty much a ban on wings beyond control ones.
- Way less braking ability. reduce the rotor sizes, perhaps limit them to 8" rotors made of cheese.

[Richard]

IF you guys want to believe these guys could hold there predecessors jock straps let alone be their equals that's fine. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that.

If the current drivers grew up in the 1950's F1 they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in that era. If Fangio and Moss grew up in the current era they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in the current era.

[Andres125sx]

No... And without them you expend a ton of energy holding yourself in at 3Gs.

I don't come here too argue.. IF you guys want to believe these guys could hold there predecessors jock straps let alone be their equals that's fine. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that.

Same debate as in footbal/soccer, and same answer IMO.

Any sport is way more professional today than it was 30-40 years back. That means two things, sportsmen are more prepared because they´re trained from early ages with the specific demands his sport requires. And second,the really good ones, those that reach the highest level, are earning money and receiving a lot of attention since they were 15-16 years old

What were Fangio, Nouvolari, Brabham, Ascari, Stewart, etc doing when they were 15-16? That´s the difference between today´s drivers and old school ones. 40 years back any F1 driver was a mature person who had been fighting probably to well past 20 years old for his dream, receiving no attention or money at all. Today most drivers are prima donnas at that age, because of the media and all the attention they have since a too early age

But don´t get me wrong, Fangio would also have been a prima donna if born at this era, I´m not dismishing today´s drivers, it´s just a different era with different circumstances, different requirements.... That´s the reason IMHO you should never compare drivers from different eras

[prince]

IF you guys want to believe these guys could hold there predecessors jock straps let alone be their equals that's fine. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that.

If the current drivers grew up in the 1950's F1 they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in that era. If Fangio and Moss grew up in the current era they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in the current era.

"I accept, every time I get in my car, there is 20 per cent chance I could die and I can live with it, but not one per cent more". That is what Niki Lauda (Daniel Bruhl) says in the movie Rush (I would assume it would have been the said by Niki too, which is a dialog in the movie).

That percentage has varied from 50s to current generation and as the time passed on, an individual's aspiration to become an F1 driver has seen up north. The last death in F1 was of Senna and that was 20 years back, which means that PERCENTAGE has greatly reduced, inviting mere mortals to get into F1 cockpit. Go through some simulator session and VOILA, you are all set to be an F1 driver and I am sure the live experience wouldn't be much different today than in that of a simulator, SAFE AND EASY.

And because of that, I have to disagree that, a number of today's drivers if they would have been in 50s would have developed to meet the demands of that era. Few years back, when it was raining crazy and visibility was very poor in the middle of a race, what can you say, when a certain driver says "Oh what are we doing here?" Do you think, a Fangio or a Clark would have said that? And fortunately there was another in the same race, who says, "No no no, let's go on and race". That differentiates mortals from legends and certainly very few of current lot would have developed the skills of driving in 50s.

[Manoah2u]

IF you guys want to believe these guys could hold there predecessors jock straps let alone be their equals that's fine. I think you're wrong. Let's leave it at that.

If the current drivers grew up in the 1950's F1 they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in that era. If Fangio and Moss grew up in the current era they would have developed to meet the demands of F1 in the current era.

exactly. A certainty though is perhaps current drivers 'lack' a certain amount of courage that the open-seater drivers in the past had, true. Still, these cars did not approach 300 kmph, and didn't go 230 through corners. So it's not like it takes zero courage to go all out in an F1 car, but it's a absolute given it's not at all the same.

On the other side, drivers of today are full athletes. Button was mentioned, doing triatlons, Alonso cycling, etc. I remember in an interview somewhere I don't recall about which driver but it might had something to do with Raikkonen's back injury or Kubica, that F1 racing drivers recover far faster than any other 'athlete' out there.

In other words, I think downplaying F1 drivers' 'strenght' isn't a fair game either. Senna was one of the first drivers to do 'physical' excersize to gain advantage, whilst Nigel Mansell had a pint in the bar before race day (could be another driver but i recall this). Take into account that you can be damn sure Button's condition is far exceeding that of Ayrton Senna in his top days (and no i'm not comparing racing skills, but I don't think Senna in his F1 days was up to Button's triathlon conditions), and I really think the fact drivers don't tumble off the podium from exhaustion doesn't have too much to do with F1 being to 'soft' on the 'body strenght'.

[Richard]

That differentiates mortals from legends and certainly very few of current lot would have developed the skills of driving in 50s.

That's the point. It's not surprising that drivers trained in the 21st century don't have the skillset and attitude for driving half a century earlier ... and vice versa. You can see the same in most sports, usually with the refrain that the old days were tougher than these young kids.

I'm pretty sure the same conversation has been taking place since humans first developed language and a sense of history. Interestingly, so called untouched tribes in rainforests don't have a sense of history. Their language isn't equipped to talk about history, they simply live in the moment. That'd be a nice place to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people