For sure... Keep it about the F1 though please.DaveKillens wrote:But I'm an old fart who needs a lot of stimulation, and passing is fun to watch, and how I rate a race.
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Then i wonder why the owner of F1, Mr bernie had a huge overreaction.Rob W wrote:I love how people who go and see a race live have a great time.. love the spectacle, enjoy the view or whatever.. and then two days later find out that xx xxx happened and then suddenly change their opinion to "oh, I hated it, I want my money back..."bizadfar wrote:The fact is the race was turned into cruise control around the 1st stops. Imagine all the people who paid to go see a RACE, pay for cruise control
The entertainment aspect was not reduced by McLaren slowing down at all - it happens in almost every race in some parts by some teams. Add to that Hamilton was not going to get past Alonso in normal race circumstances.
If 'entertainment' was the only bar for a successful F1 race then Monaco would have to be scrapped as, other than the people present and a bit of nostalgia, it's pretty much always a procession from start to finish.
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I was sitting at the exit of waite and i was really not entertained watching the two hondas then a red bull then Massa, for a few laps. Massa passed DC and the train of 2 hondas, massa, DC continued for ages.... like the whole stint? BUT at least they were close and trying and succeeded obviously.DaveKillens wrote:You have a good point there. I've spectated a lot of road races, and usually what happens is you watch the cars zoom by in glorious color and noise, and wait until they come by again, hoping to notice any change in position. You really don't get any idea of the big picture when you're spectating in person.Rob W wrote:I love how people who go and see a race live have a great time.. love the spectacle, enjoy the view or whatever.. and then two days later find out that xx xxx happened and then suddenly change their opinion to "oh, I hated it, I want my money back..."
But TV is the medium of most, and it's quite a different experience than being there. And one of the (hopefully) advantages of TV is being made more aware of the big picture, and obviously, a pass is big news. When they don't come often and quick enough, many like me get bored.
Some people may find excitement in watching the gap between cars open and close, and can be entertained for an entire race without any passing.
But I'm an old fart who needs a lot of stimulation, and passing is fun to watch, and how I rate a race.
Was that the 1st F1 race u've ever seen (on TV or live)? Go and watch montoya shoving his teammatebizadfar wrote:If you don't want to see that, I do not know what is wrong with u. I do not why u even defend, go watch donkey racing. They all have carrots infront of them. Maybe u dont want to see which one is more hungry?
Monaco 2004 was a great battle for win till the last lap. If you missed that, I'm sorry.... or u wanna see blood spilled on the walls?bizadfar wrote:Yes it was great to be there, but infact it was a crap race, just as bad as 2004. 2007 Monaco even worse.
Honestly, the 2007 Monaco GP was the most boring race AND GP weekend so far this season. Probably the most uneventful Monaco GP I ever watched!captainmorgan wrote:I'm still a little surprised that people are angry about this. A good Monaco race without crashes has always been the exception. Qualifying is where all the best racing in Monaco happens, and with these rules that's mostly in Q2. It was probably the best racing of the season, but it seems like no one cared to notice. Sure, it wasn't wheel-to-wheel racing but how can one really expect that with today's cars and at Monaco? When was the last time we saw a close contention there on a Sunday? I think it was Senna/Mansell 15 years ago. Basically if you expect that level of a race every year, you will surely be disappointed 95% of the time.
I have almost no doubt that we'll see the kind of racing you expect this season, on the more open tracks, and at the limit. Ferrari have the fastest car but are sloppy on reliability. McLaren seemed to have learned from 2005, and have a bulletproof car that's only getting faster. Look at all the times Hamilton hit the armco, and not once have either of their cars retired so far in either the race or quali. Massa somehow is fastest, but Raikonnen still has time to learn the car. And finally, I don't think Alonso has been paired with as good a teammate ever. Mclaren has the resources and the reputation to give both of them equally good cars, so I don't even think there has ever been a closer competition to see who's better in F1, at least for a decade.
Monaco changed none of this. If anything, it levelled the field even closer, given Ferrari's pace advantage.
http://www.f1network.net/main/s85/st116757.htmDid Ferrari Win The Monte Carlo Grand Prix?
By Dale Calkins May 29 2007
A question which will soon be answered if McLaren are found guilty of team orders and excluded from the results of the Monaco Grand Prix following an investigation by the FIA. The FIA and many are of the opinion that McLaren staged the results of Sunday's race, by preventing Lewis Hamilton from fighting Fernando Alonso for the race victory.
A question which will soon be answered if McLaren are found guilty of team orders and excluded from the results of the Monaco Grand Prix following an investigation by the FIA. The FIA and many are of the opinion that McLaren staged the results of Sunday's race, by preventing Lewis Hamilton from fighting Fernando Alonso for the race victory. In fact it was quite obvious that McLaren forced Hamilton to hold back and ensure a double-podium finish.
It is normal for a team to tell its drivers to relax if they are running first and second in a race, though in Monaco it was clear that Fernando Alonso was meant to win the race from the very beginning. Lewis Hamilton may be the number two driver at the Woking squad, though that should not prevent him from fighting for the win. Lewis could have won the race and probably would have if McLaren did not change his strategy or tell him to hold back. The FIA statement read as such:
"The FIA has launched an investigation into incidents involving the McLaren Mercedes team at the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix in light of a possible breach of the International Sporting Code. The relevant evidence is under review and a further announcement will be made in due cours."
Lewis Hamilton played the team game and side-stepped questions of a staged result:
"To see that I'm at a similar pace to Fernando is a positive for me, but it's just something I have to live with. I am in car number two so I am the number two driver."
McLaren Team Principal Ron Dennis firmly denied that he employed team orders, though you would not expect him to say anything else would you?
"We do not favour anybody. There will be times and places when they are free to race, but this isn't one of them. I don't like to slow drivers down, I don't like them to be frustrated but it is the way you have to win the Monaco Grand Prix. We don't have team orders, we had a strategy to win this race."
Dennis clearly makes a distinction between team orders and team stategy. However, in this case the two are not seperated by much. Based on what everyone watching the race could see, McLaren fabricated the end result of the race. They prevented one of their drivers from challenging for the victory and from actually taking it when he had a good chance. Those are team orders, regardless of what you choose to call them.
This is of course very important to Ferrari as if McLaren are found guilty, both drivers may be excluded from the race results. Though that would not be fair to Lewis Hamilton, it would be of much benefit to Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen. Not only would Felipe be promoted to victory but Kimi would also be upgraded to sixth place. These extra points combined with Hamilton and Alonso's loss of points would be a major bonus for Ferrari's Driver and Constructors' Championship challenges.
Now, please let us not get into the fact that Ferrari has used team orders in the past. This issue is not about that, it is about McLaren preventing its own driver from racing and by extension fabricating the results of a Grand Prix.
Those are not team orders to fix the outcome of the race but agreed procedure for when who pits etc. Every team has that kind of procedures and needs to have them in order to function properly.Torso wrote:McLaren is again caught useing team orders...
but still no booooing from the McLaren fans..
HYPOCR...
