So whatever happened to PURE?

[GitanesBlondes]

They had gotten a lot of press a few years back when Pollock announced he started PURE to build a F1 engine for the 2014 season. He had even gone out and grabbed hold of Gilles Simon to design the engine. Then there was a brief mention that PURE had run into funding issues and everything was in doubt, and Simon departed PURE about a year before PURE went MIA. That was in the summer of 2012. Since then, not a word has been mentioned about the whole PURE venture even in the lovable specialized F1 press.

That leads me to my next thought --remember this is just speculation and not fact-- as to what actually happened to the research PURE did? Was the whole thing just a shell game to get money for a venture that was never intended to become a reality? Did they do a lot of the ground work necessary for 2014 so that they could possibly sell the research to an interested party?

It's said that Gilles Simon is working on the Honda V6 engine for 2015. Not sure if that was ever confirmed as fact...but it's amazing how a man of his stature could somehow continue flying under the radar with nary a peep.

Was PURE just backdoor for Honda to test the waters for the upcoming engine switch? Is all of PURE's research now in Japan being used for the 2015 engine?

[xpensive]

The speculation on who was behind PURE was rife, my own included, but I now find it obvious that the work ended up at Honda.

Wether Honda was financing it from the start is another matter, but it was indeed Pollock who brought Honda back last time.

[GitanesBlondes]

The speculation on who was behind PURE was rife, my own included, but I now find it obvious that the work ended up at Honda.

Wether Honda was financing it from the start is another matter, but it was indeed Pollock who brought Honda back last time.

Don't you find it interesting how the highly regarded F1 media never wanted to dig much deeper about what really was going on with PURE? In my opinion, Gilles Simon being reported working over at Honda earlier this year should have been a big story, yet it nary got a mention by anyone. Somehow both he and Pollock have been flying under the radar for quite sometime. One almost gets the feeling no one actually wants to pursue this story.

[xpensive]

I agree that the total silence post the summer of 2012 is odd, but if anyone could master that it's perhaps Honda?

[george1981]

I thought the relationship with Pollock and Honda was poor. Pollock tried to sue BAR to stop them selling shares to Honda back in 2004. Although he didn't sue them directly he was definitely a fly in the ointment.
Gilles Simon is highly respected and seems to be working for Honda now.
PURE put out a CAD image a few years back showing a V6 turbo engine. I don't know how much further they went.
Here is a link to that image.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/06/08/p- ... #more-2801

[xpensive]

That image still looks far more believable than those from Renault, in particular the exhaust.

[GitanesBlondes]

With the 2014 season dwindling down in a mere formality, I'm bumping this since I and xpensive must be one of the few people who continue to wonder what happened to PURE.

With the rumors abound about Honda's engine being behind, or being the most powerful of the 2015 engines depending on whom you believe, I think it's still a question worth asking.

I still believe everything about PURE wound up at Honda/McLaren. Given the thing received EU money, how does it just disappear with nary a question answered?

[Gaz.]

The speculation on who was behind PURE was rife, my own included, but I now find it obvious that the work ended up at Honda.

Wether Honda was financing it from the start is another matter, but it was indeed Pollock who brought Honda back last time.

Don't you find it interesting how the highly regarded F1 media never wanted to dig much deeper about what really was going on with PURE? In my opinion, Gilles Simon being reported working over at Honda earlier this year should have been a big story, yet it nary got a mention by anyone. Somehow both he and Pollock have been flying under the radar for quite sometime. One almost gets the feeling no one actually wants to pursue this story.

Never wanted to dig, or simply didn't even think about digging in the first place?

In regards to the PURE IP ending up at Honda, I was under the impression Honda had a similar in concept (to F1) engine in development in recent years, would there be no cross R&D from that engine to their 2015 F1 engine and would it not supersede PURE's progress with their 4 cylinder engine?

[GitanesBlondes]

Well the PURE engine was a 1.6L V6 turbo unit.



That was the only image ever released of the purported unit, and we all know how notoriously unreliable those CG or artwork mock-ups are of unreleased engines.

Given that Gilles Simon was rumored to be working for Honda 18 months or so ago, one would have to think all R&D done on PURE's side would have found it's way into the Honda engine.

I actually contacted PURE sometime last year to see if anyone even was monitoring their email, or would comment on what happened to the project, and got no response. Granted someone could have seen the email, and just decided not to answer on the hopes it would go away.

The other line of thought I've heard, is if Ron Dennis had some involvement with PURE, and it was a way to get Honda or another manufacturer to pick up the engine R&D tab so he didn't have to do everything in house. Ron has a long history of getting engine manufacturers to pick up nearly all of the engine costs, and had no problem dumping one manufacturer for another if they presented better terms.

[Gaz.]

Ah- It was Cosworth who had a 4 cylinder engine in progress. Sorry.

[FW17]

Ah- It was Cosworth who had a 4 cylinder engine in progress. Sorry.

And it ended up like this ~ 530 hp 1.6L road car engine

[xpensive]

One possibility is that Honda acquired the PURE ICE developments in order to build it, which is close to a spec unit anyways,
for McLaren electronics to supply the complicated ERS software. This would mean it will be a semi in-house McLaren engine.

Ron's wet dream since many moons.

[GitanesBlondes]

One possibility is that Honda acquired the PURE ICE developments in order to build it, which is close to a spec unit anyways,
for McLaren electronics to supply the complicated ERS software. This would mean it will be a semi in-house McLaren engine.

Ron's wet dream since many moons.

That might be the best approach since the McLaren electronics are quite good. Plus it still would put the bulk of the development costs on Honda anyway. I don't believe that PURE mockup I posted above was indicative of anything, but I think the big test is going to be whether Honda shows up with a split turbo or not.

Given that Mercedes spent almost 3 years developing their engine for this season, I cannot believe Honda would have a design down pat and in development in less than half the time it took Mercedes, unless they had an advantage in receiving all of the plans for the engine from Gilles Simon for a price.

[xpensive]

I suspect the ICE is a walk in the park compered to getting the energy harvesting from the MGU-H optimized, which is obviously where MHPE got it right. As fuel-flow and MGU-K power is limited, max power should not differ that much, but for how long you have the xtra 160 MGU-K power must be the key to their success.

Mclaren has had a season to benchmark against the MHPE PU, must be priceless even if their unit is not on par with Mercedes'.

[GitanesBlondes]

I suspect the ICE is a walk in the park compered to getting the energy harvesting from the MGU-H optimized, which is obviously where MHPE got it right. As fuel-flow and MGU-K power is limited, max power should not differ that much, but for how long you have the xtra 160 MGU-K power being the key to their success.

Mclaren has had a season to benchmark against the MHPE PU, must be priceless even if their unit is not on par with Mercedes'.

I bet that's why Ron was going on about not receiving the same engine maps that Mercedes is giving the other teams. He/McLaren probably figured out exactly what the proper engine mapping is supposed to be that gives the most available power per lap.

I would say if McLaren has the electronic side figured out, as long as there is nothing abnormal about the ICE, it's going to come down to develops their engine between now and when the freeze the engines again. I still think Mercedes holds the upper hand.

Of course the other question is, since these regulations were all written with input from Gilles Simon, is there a loophole that he snuck in there that only he knows about?