McLaren have finally announced their new driver line-up for 2015 as it embarks on a new era with Honda power. While Fernando Alonso joins from Ferrari, Jenson Button is retained as a racing racing. Kevin Magnussen will stay at the team as test and reserve driver.
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When people say that Berger will "replace Ron Dennis", presumably that's only in reference to Ron's role in the F1 team, not the McLaren Group as a whole right?
Because my take on the group as a whole is that Ron's vision for it, and leadership of it, is going well - their cars to date have all sold in line, or exceeding, expectations and I understand that they have a healthy order book.
Wasn't the plan always for Ron's return to the F1 team just to be short-term?
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adrianjordan wrote:When people say that Berger will "replace Ron Dennis", presumably that's only in reference to Ron's role in the F1 team, not the McLaren Group as a whole right?
Because my take on the group as a whole is that Ron's vision for it, and leadership of it, is going well - their cars to date have all sold in line, or exceeding, expectations and I understand that they have a healthy order book.
Wasn't the plan always for Ron's return to the F1 team just to be short-term?
His role with the racing team and it's more to do with his promise to the other investors of finding funding.
He didn't find funding to buy out that investor and he didn't find a sponsor to pay the bills.Without the Honda money,they would be in major problems.
I don't think Ron will be pushed out.. He is a 25% shareholder in McLaren and knows Honda better than most.
If they do hire Berger, I think it will be a position similar to Nikki Lauda's at Mercedes. It would make sense to split the management like Mercedes. Red Bull also have a similar approach and it has worked.
IIRC TAG Group (Mansour Ojjeh) has said that they are willing to part with their shares for the "right price", and incidentally they also own 25% of McLaren. It would make more sense to buy shares from a willing seller rather than one who is not willing to sell.
If the omnicourse.it article is to be believed, I would put my money on Honda buying Mr. Ojjeh's shares rather than Ron Dennis.
Ron is an asset to the F1 team. His negotiating skills are excellent and so is his ability of play politics in F1 when he needs to. He belongs to school of thought which would leverage any advantage he has to the hilt. (Case in point : The Dan Fallows incident).
mclaren_mircea wrote:- Mclaren cannot permit anymore to have a large structure of the management team like Mercedes and Ferrari. To Jonathan Neale, Tim Goss and Sam Michael apparently are going to leave sonner than latter.
Sam Micheal the worst addition under Martin Withmarsh will finaly leave, he brought the Williams slump to McLaren. Hopefully Neale will also leave soon. Tim Goss is a great designer, real valuable asset. If McLaren boots Tim Goss I wouldn't be surprised if Paddy Lowe offered him a job at Mercedes.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
Thunders wrote:Sooo, Gerhard Berger for Sporting Director?
Berger will likely be team principal, Honda want a "Honda-man" overseeing the project those are the rumors. There are to many so called "directors" at McLaren, I wouldn't be surprised if Berger leads the F1 team and all "directors" if they still will be there being demoted to head of their departments. Eric Boulier could also quite if he has to answer to Berger. He was put their to lead the team by Ron. If Ron doesn't have the backing from shareholders and leaves, Eric's position might become obsolete when Berger joins and commands that position.
The McLaren management carousel, will be a great winter F1 story. I''m already tuned in.
Last edited by kooleracer on 22 Oct 2014, 14:25, edited 2 times in total.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
kooleracer wrote:Sam Micheal the worst addition under Martin Withmarsh will finaly leave, he brought the Williams slump to McLaren. Hopefully Neale will also leave soon. Tim Goss is a great designer, real valuable asset. If McLaren boots Tim Goss I wouldn't be surprised if Paddy Lowe offered him a job at Mercedes.
What's your issue with Neale?
When Micheal leaves and if mclaren do have a return to the front- it's gonna add another blotch to his career, a career that's been blotched for the past 10 years unfortunately whether it's been bad luck, just circumstance or bad misjudgement.
Thunders wrote:Sooo, Gerhard Berger for Sporting Director?
Berger will likely be team principal, Honda want a "Honda" overseeing the project those are the rumors. There are to many so called "directors" at McLaren, I wouldn't be surprised if Berger leads the F1 team and all "directors" if they still will be there being demoted to head of their departments. Eric Boulier could also quite if he has to answer to Berger. He was put their to lead the team by Ron. If Ron doesn't have the backing from shareholders and leaves Eric's position might become obsolete when Berger joins and command that position.
The McLaren management carousel, will be a great winter F1 story. I''m already tuned in.
Boullier is too good to be potted by mclaren or honda. If he is forced out- bad decision in my opinion.
Maybe IF Berger joins McLaren Boullier/Berger will be similar to what RB have with Horner/Marko and Merc with Lauda/Wolff. It would be worth a thought.
kooleracer wrote:Sam Micheal the worst addition under Martin Withmarsh will finaly leave, he brought the Williams slump to McLaren. Hopefully Neale will also leave soon. Tim Goss is a great designer, real valuable asset. If McLaren boots Tim Goss I wouldn't be surprised if Paddy Lowe offered him a job at Mercedes.
What's your issue with Neale?
When Micheal leaves and if mclaren do have a return to the front- it's gonna add another blotch to his career, a career that's been blotched for the past 10 years unfortunately whether it's been bad luck, just circumstance or bad misjudgement.
Neale has been responsible of the technical slump McLaren finds it's self in. He decided to build a totaly new car for 2013 instead of improving the fastest car at the end of the 2012 season. Neale is also responsible for the technical and engineering staff at McLaren Racing. A lot of good engineers have left McLaren and they haven't been replaced since Paddy Lowe and Pat Fry are two examples. Also his engineering direction hasn't been successful, the alternating design philosophy is such an example. McLaren has clever people working for them but the management is weak part of the organisation. Hopefully the get rid of the management including Neale A.S.A.P.
I'm totally not surprised that Honda wants to have more grip on McLaren that last years haven't stellar the say the least. If McLaren wan't to be successful again they need to sign more key-engineers like Peter Prodromou and need they need a clear management structure. Bob Bell is on the market McLaren could use a guy that was responsible for the engine and chassis integration at Mercedes.
Last edited by kooleracer on 22 Oct 2014, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
kooleracer wrote:Sam Micheal the worst addition under Martin Withmarsh will finaly leave, he brought the Williams slump to McLaren. Hopefully Neale will also leave soon. Tim Goss is a great designer, real valuable asset. If McLaren boots Tim Goss I wouldn't be surprised if Paddy Lowe offered him a job at Mercedes.
What's your issue with Neale?
When Micheal leaves and if mclaren do have a return to the front- it's gonna add another blotch to his career, a career that's been blotched for the past 10 years unfortunately whether it's been bad luck, just circumstance or bad misjudgement.
Neale has been responsible of the technical slump McLaren finds it's self in. He decided to build a totaly new car for 2013 instead of improving the fastest car at the end of the 2012 season. Neale is also responsible for the technical and engineering staff at McLaren Racing. A lot of good engineers have left McLaren and they haven't been replaced since Paddy Lowe and Pat Fry for instance. Also his engineering direction hasn't been successful, the alternating design philosophy is such an example. McLaren has clever people working for them but the management is weak part of the organisation. Hopefully the get rid of the management including Neale A.S.A.P.
I don't believe Neale really was to blame. Remember, Mclaren followed their own philosophy, which worked great but ultimately had less potentional then the competition. The MP4-27 was at the end of that philosophy's curve. They wouldn't have extracted much more performance out of it.
So Neale was right to change philsophies, but unfortunaly had to step on unknown ground for mclaren. The MP4-28 was a failure due inexperience.
kooleracer wrote:
Neale has been responsible of the technical slump McLaren finds it's self in. He decided to build a totaly new car for 2013 instead of improving the fastest car at the end of the 2012 season. Neale is also responsible for the technical and engineering staff at McLaren Racing. A lot of good engineers have left McLaren and they haven't been replaced since Paddy Lowe and Pat Fry for instance. Also his engineering direction hasn't been successful, the alternating design philosophy is such an example. McLaren has clever people working for them but the management is weak part of the organisation. Hopefully the get rid of the management including Neale A.S.A.P.
I don't believe Neale really was to blame. Remember, Mclaren followed their own philosophy, which worked great but ultimately had less potentional then the competition. The MP4-27 was at the end of that philosophy's curve. They wouldn't have extracted much more performance out of it.
So Neale was right to change philsophies, but unfortunaly had to step on unknown ground for mclaren. The MP4-28 was a failure due inexperience.
I have to disagree with you. Mercedes and Red Bull showed that 2013 should have been a evolution of the 2012 car. Both found 1 - 2 seconds improvement over the winter, by perfecting the Coanda-exhaust for example. To discontinue to development of the fastest car at he end of the season shows the incompetence of the McLaren management. A lot of important people in the F1 paddock were shocked by their "bold" decision. McLaren should have won the 2013 title, but because of stupid/weak/incompetent management they struggled in 2013 and now again in 2014 because they wasted resources for 2014. Because they were building a totally new car for 2013 when, the biggest rule changes in F1 were about the start in 2014.
That is called incompetent management. A manager should "manage" or optimize the resources available and not waste them. The Mercedes W05 was started 3-4 years a go. McLaren have developed the 2012 car for 2013 and started with the 2014 a year earlier. Now they have wasted 2 years without winning a championship. Great management....of course its not only Neale but he decided to build a new car for 2013 and the snowball he created is still rolling.
Last edited by kooleracer on 22 Oct 2014, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
