MotoGP 2014

[Tommy Cookers]

I think Dani didn't get on win the tires at all this year. He was a lot closer to M&M in 2013. ....

if Dani and Mark lean their bikes equally to some maximum angle and lean their bodies equally to some (larger) angle ......
Mark has a greater combined bike+rider lean than Dani because Dani is lighter
so Dani's light weight limits him to a lower best apex speed

[Shrieker]

In theory. In theory, it should also be easier for him to brake, and accelerate out of corners since he has less total mass to work with. But the reality of the subject is another story... If his light weight is giving him any disadvantages i doubt it's beyond anything other than strength, but then again if it's anything to do with weight he wasn't having it before 2014.

Maybe what you're saying is about the 2014 tires not being very friendly about keeping corner speed under extreme lean angles ? At least that's what was being said about Lorenzo iirc. So with the 2014 tires, Dani's light weight becomes a disadvantage ? Could be, why not.

[JimClarkFan]

The weight between his ears?
Dani's problem is - clearly - a mental issue.. ..he's too brittle..

He is capable of beating the best - when everything clicks.. ..but far too often - it does not..

& there were too many strange 'unforced error'-type offs in that last race.. ..what does the telemetry reveal?

It is more than just mental, dani being lighter affects how he can ride the bike. For example, he simply cannot throw the bike around like others, and he can't load the dfront tyre as well either.

In theory. In theory, it should also be easier for him to brake, and accelerate out of corners since he has less total mass to work with. But the reality of the subject is another story...

That is actually how dani rides, he stands the bike up early to accelerate out of the corner. Stoner commented on it one time.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hp54N8wK7U

I think dani's style, more than perhaps any other rider is limited by his physical stature

[turbof1]

I have an issue with the weight problem. All other riders are hell bent on saving weight. Surely if he doesn't have a high metabolism, the solution would be to eat more and train to have more muscle mass?

Even if that was the case, the team could still use ballast?

I think it's really more about how mentally strong he is then anything else.

[Cold Fussion]

I have an issue with the weight problem. All other riders are hell bent on saving weight. Surely if he doesn't have a high metabolism, the solution would be to eat more and train to have more muscle mass?

Even if that was the case, the team could still use ballast?

I think it's really more about how mentally strong he is then anything else.

I agree, if weight is an issue, then it could be added onto either the bike of Danny himself.

[JimClarkFan]

I have an issue with the weight problem. All other riders are hell bent on saving weight. Surely if he doesn't have a high metabolism, the solution would be to eat more and train to have more muscle mass?

Even if that was the case, the team could still use ballast?

I think it's really more about how mentally strong he is then anything else.

For the record I don't think it is just one or the other, I agree that it is mental as well, more so that I don't believe he wants to put it on the line as much as the other guys, which is understandable because that generally seems to be the case when guys get older - that is why Rossi is such a phenomenon in my mind, how is he still willing mentally.

I know a few guys who are that dani's height, dani could add muscle but that sacrifices his endurance. I understand how body weight changes can affect you, as an avid weight lifter, a 10% difference in my body mass is the difference between comfortably navigating stairs or being out of breath at the top. It seriously reduces your endurance. It isn't just as simple as add more muscle he still has to be able to throw himself around for 30-40 minutes, if he adds muscle he will sacrifice endurance and since he can only inhale so much and pump so much blood he is going to reach his ceiling fairly quickly. He could take epo but that is illegal.

Regarding the ballast, I agree it might be useful, but surely not as useful as being able to shift bodyweight around as needed. Corner entry you need your weight forward, corner exit back for traction, ballast can only help so much and whilst they might help with entry they would probably hinder exit or vice versa.

[turbof1]

I know a few guys who are that dani's height, dani could add muscle but that sacrifices his endurance. I understand how body weight changes can affect you, as an avid weight lifter, a 10% difference in my body mass is the difference between comfortably navigating stairs or being out of breath at the top. It seriously reduces your endurance. It isn't just as simple as add more muscle he still has to be able to throw himself around for 30-40 minutes, if he adds muscle he will sacrifice endurance and since he can only inhale so much and pump so much blood he is going to reach his ceiling fairly quickly. He could take epo but that is illegal.

I don't agree, and I'll tell you why: I myself have a very high metabolism, and I do fitness. I noticed that when I manage to eat huge portions a day for a week or so, my bodyweight goes up and my stamina and endurance too. When I have a small period, 2-3 days, where I eat a bit less, I loose up to 3 kilo's within that time frame. And my endurance goes back down. I have that issue for years now. My endurance for the record has trippled, but I still have that fluctuation.

You of course need to combine muscle mass training with endurance training, but I think it's very much doable. Danni probably will need some conditioning so how can use bigger muscles more efficient.

if he adds muscle he will sacrifice endurance and since he can only inhale so much and pump so much blood he is going to reach his ceiling fairly quickly.

You are talking about the V02max. But that increases with muscle mass. Again it's also about efficiency. In 2 years I for instance increased my cardio output per second by 33%. One factor in that increase is muscle stability by simply having more muscle, one other is my lung intake, and another is pure body burning efficiency. For each burned calory I can produce more force. Looks like Dani could use that.

[JimClarkFan]

[

I don't agree, and I'll tell you why: I myself have a very high metabolism, and I do fitness. I noticed that when I manage to eat huge portions a day for a week or so, my bodyweight goes up and my stamina and endurance too. When I have a small period, 2-3 days, where I eat a bit less, I loose up to 3 kilo's within that time frame. And my endurance goes back down. I have that issue for years now. My endurance for the record has trippled, but I still have that fluctuation.

You of course need to combine muscle mass training with endurance training, but I think it's very much doable. Danni probably will need some conditioning so how can use bigger muscles more efficient.

There is a difference, 3-4 kilos of actual muscle mass that uses calories and needs fed with oxygen is a lot. I have been 105kg, now reside at 94kg, I lost about 50/50 fat and muscle, my endurance is noticeably different at those levels, probably because I was closer to the upper end of endurance at that weight. It took me about 2 years to go from 90kg to 105kg, and another year to get from 105 back to 94 while dieting slowly. So why am I bringing this up?

The point I am making here is that the 3-4kg you added per week, and then lost in the same time is not muscle, it's could be a big chit (no offense lol), glycogen, water etc... your increased stamina is probably a result of being better fed. Your body does not fluctuate that much.

I notice huge variations in my own ability to perform based on my feed status, it can be the difference between 1 rep at a certain weight, or 8, the difference is that stark.

You are talking about the V02max. But that increases with muscle mass. Again it's also about efficiency. In 2 years I for instance increased my cardio output per second by 33%. One factor in that increase is muscle stability by simply having more muscle, one other is my lung intake, and another is pure body burning efficiency. For each burned calory I can produce more force. Looks like Dani could use that.

Not necessarily, it depends on how you train, and how fit you currently are. I have dropped from 105kg, to 94kg, I'm lighter but I am running a bit now and I can guarantee that my VO2 max has increased.

Dani is a professional rider, I would say he is already fairly fit.

[J.A.W.]

Lighter bike/rider combos go quicker, that's why minimum weight limits are there.
Back in the day - mandated minimum weight of the 500 was increased to 130kg - to slow them down..

The crashes in the last race are being attributed to poor grip - from the chosen tyres being affected by
the cool wind change that dropped the on track temp to below optimum for race grip..

Jorge commented that he'd been very lucky not to have crashed too..

& Bridgestone had been a bit cautious on compound choice after the tyre wear debacle last year.

All Moto GP riders must have a thoroughly professional physiological fitness/training/dietary program.. ..surely..

But as for psychological fitness coaching.. ..who knows?

[Andres125sx]

Lighter bike/rider combos go quicker, that's why minimum weight limits are there.
Back in the day - mandated minimum weight of the 500 was increased to 130kg - to slow them down..

Not that easy I´m afraid

MotoGP bikes are not that affected by weight, they have so much power they´re limited by the anti-wheelie even on third gear, so a heavier driver leaning forward and loading the front wheel could actually be beneficial to avoid the wheelie and accelerate faster

Also:

I think Dani didn't get on win the tires at all this year. He was a lot closer to M&M in 2013. ....

if Dani and Mark lean their bikes equally to some maximum angle and lean their bodies equally to some (larger) angle ......
Mark has a greater combined bike+rider lean than Dani because Dani is lighter
so Dani's light weight limits him to a lower best apex speed

Also braking wise more weight to load the rear wheel may be beneficial as the limit is not the grip as usual with cars, but the rear wheel lifting from tarmac, so more weight to load the rear wheel means more braking power can be applied

And there´s even another point to consider, fast direction changes, for example chicanes. Not sure if you´ve ever driven a motorcycle on a track, but the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plus the inertia of the bike due to its weight are two strong forces driver must overcome when trying to do a fast tilt change. A heavy driver can do it faster because his weight here is an advantage to move bike weight and change tilt angle

So I see some advantages for a heavy driver, accelerating on short gears, braking, leaning, and doing fast direction changes, while only see one advantage for a light driver, accelerating when you can apply full throttle, wich is only on final gears

Obviously it will depend on how much advantage/disadvantage each of those points provide, but I wouldn´t say lighter riders go quicker so lightly

[Shrieker]

Well, Pedrosa's starts have almost always been lightning fast and it's quite often attributed to his low weight. Makes a lot of sense, as it should.

[turbof1]

There is a difference, 3-4 kilos of actual muscle mass that uses calories and needs fed with oxygen is a lot. I have been 105kg, now reside at 94kg, I lost about 50/50 fat and muscle, my endurance is noticeably different at those levels, probably because I was closer to the upper end of endurance at that weight. It took me about 2 years to go from 90kg to 105kg, and another year to get from 105 back to 94 while dieting slowly. So why am I bringing this up?

The point I am making here is that the 3-4kg you added per week, and then lost in the same time is not muscle, it's could be a big chit (no offense lol), glycogen, water etc... your increased stamina is probably a result of being better fed. Your body does not fluctuate that much.

No I have this on a regular and predictable. It's pure metabolism that burns it away. In essence, if I don't eat enough to compensate the cardio, I burn away my muscles. I've always very low fat reserves, I think I currently have 5% bodyfat.

I always eat enough before I do my excercise, including fast sugars. It's not really an issue what I eat before, but after. I have to eat right after a round, but don't always find the time to do so.

Of course, if you have so much muscle that your weight is around 90-100kg, you reach a cross-over point where more muscle mass is a hindrance. Understand that I weight between 70 and 75kg. I'm below that cross-over point!

Rolling this back to Danii: he doesn't weight 90kg . If you look at him, it's easy to tell even for his size he is close to being underweight.

[bdr529]

I think Dani didn't get on win the tires at all this year. He was a lot closer to M&M in 2013. ....

if Dani and Mark lean their bikes equally to some maximum angle and lean their bodies equally to some (larger) angle ......
Mark has a greater combined bike+rider lean than Dani because Dani is lighter
so Dani's light weight limits him to a lower best apex speed

Also braking wise more weight to load the rear wheel may be beneficial as the limit is not the grip as usual with cars, but the rear wheel lifting from tarmac, so more weight to load the rear wheel means more braking power can be applied

And there´s even another point to consider, fast direction changes, for example chicanes. Not sure if you´ve ever driven a motorcycle on a track, but the gyroscopic effect of the wheels plus the inertia of the bike due to its weight are two strong forces driver must overcome when trying to do a fast tilt change. A heavy driver can do it faster because his weight here is an advantage to move bike weight and change tilt angle

So I see some advantages for a heavy driver, accelerating on short gears, braking, leaning, and doing fast direction changes, while only see one advantage for a light driver, accelerating when you can apply full throttle, wich is only on final gears

Obviously it will depend on how much advantage/disadvantage each of those points provide, but I wouldn´t say lighter riders go quicker so lightly

I feel I can speak with some authority on this as someone who raced for 7 years back in the 80's, I still ride a bike today and on the best of days I weigh 150lbs most days its 145lbs 5 foot 7" short upper body long legs.

As Andres125sx has noted about the gyroscopic effect this is were my lack of wight was a disadvantage and it's not really in the slow corners but in the fast ones, as speed increases the bike wants to stand straight up and to counter this effect It took a great deal of upper body energy and leaning the upper portion of my body of the bike to maintain this angle.

My low weight was never a problem in slow to medium speed corners and I feel that my weight was a benefit in the fast direction changes (chicanes), because I was able to start moving my body around on the bike sooner then a heaver rider with out upsetting the bike while it was still leaned over in a turn.

As for braking I never had an issue, less weight to slow down meant I could start braking later But I'm also an anomaly when it comes to that because I never used the rear break, in 7 years of racing I may have changed the rear pads 2 times, other rides used tell me that at times the rear tire was 5-6 inches off the ground, this also meant that I had to finish my downshifts very late in the breaking zone when the rear tire was back down on the ground.

comparing lean angles between rides is just a wast of time and just shows how little one knows of the sport or riding a bike in general

I raced a 1966 suzuki t20 vintage class, RZ 350, FZR 400, 1986 GSXR 750 limited edition , and 4 fun on weeknights a Yamaha YSR 50. Today I ride A 1992 Honda VFR 400R. It was on the 750 that I noticed the difficulty in getting and keeping the bike leaned over in high speed corners
1986 I think? that's me on the right with 2 NS400 and an other RZ350 on the left, I'm not leading the race just these guys

[J.A.W.]

E. Bugatti made the backhanded compliment about the big fast Bentley sports cars being..

"The world's fastest trucks ."

That comment applies to Moto G.P., by comparison to the previous pursang 2-stroke G.P. machines..

M. Doohan was a WSBK race-winner who was used to man-handling porky superbikes around,
- yet was highly critical of the mandated weight increase for 500s from 115kg to 130kg..

I weigh 95kg & I do appreciate the difference in positive control when riding bikes that weigh less than 160kg.
Heavier machines are more reluctant to respond to subtle rider inputs..

Obviously a 50kg Dani will have to work harder to influence the inertia of his machines, since his
mass contribution to the bike-rider total weight is low.

In Moto 1, they do have the benefit of quite a degree of interactive electronic feedback assistance..
..which Dani seems very dependant on, more-so than his team-mates..

I note that C. Stoner wanted rid of the intrusive electronic assistance,
& wished he could've tested his skills on the real-deal 500 2-strokes..

[JimClarkFan]

I feel I can speak with some authority on this as someone who raced for 7 years back in the 80's, I still ride a bike today and on the best of days I weigh 150lbs most days its 145lbs 5 foot 7" short upper body long legs.

As Andres125sx has noted about the gyroscopic effect this is were my lack of wight was a disadvantage and it's not really in the slow corners but in the fast ones, as speed increases the bike wants to stand straight up and to counter this effect It took a great deal of upper body energy and leaning the upper portion of my body of the bike to maintain this angle.

My low weight was never a problem in slow to medium speed corners and I feel that my weight was a benefit in the fast direction changes (chicanes), because I was able to start moving my body around on the bike sooner then a heaver rider with out upsetting the bike while it was still leaned over in a turn.

As for braking I never had an issue, less weight to slow down meant I could start braking later But I'm also an anomaly when it comes to that because I never used the rear break, in 7 years of racing I may have changed the rear pads 2 times, other rides used tell me that at times the rear tire was 5-6 inches off the ground, this also meant that I had to finish my downshifts very late in the breaking zone when the rear tire was back down on the ground.

comparing lean angles between rides is just a wast of time and just shows how little one knows of the sport or riding a bike in general

I raced a 1966 suzuki t20 vintage class, RZ 350, FZR 400, 1986 GSXR 750 limited edition , and 4 fun on weeknights a Yamaha YSR 50. Today I ride A 1992 Honda VFR 400R. It was on the 750 that I noticed the difficulty in getting and keeping the bike leaned over in high speed corners
1986 I think? that's me on the right with 2 NS400 and an other RZ350 on the left, I'm not leading the race just these guys
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/ ... 315b36.jpg

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