Could Ferrari and Renault Pull out of F1 effective 2015?

[seinfeld]

With the recent quotes of Toto Wolff saying he wont allow the unfreeze to take place. I honestly don't see Ferrari and Renault hanging around. its essentially racing to be 2nd, especially if they are underpowered and cant develop.
This also lends some validation to Audi joining. perhaps Bernie is securing a new engine maker or team owner. incase he ends up with only mercedes left on the grid?

[Aesto]

No.

The Concorde Agreement runs until 2020 so Ferrari, at least as a constructor, has to stay until then.

Renault presumably doesn't have that obligation, but they do have contracts with RBR and STR (Caterham too, but that probably won't matter much longer), which they can't simply breach, especially on such short notice.

[seinfeld]

I just dont see them entering to be 2nd, if they cant develop the engine.

[Skippon]

They can develop their engine - just not within the same season!!!!

[SiLo]

There is actually a lot of room for development of the engine, I really don't understand what they are always moaning about. A lot of the advantages Mercedes has come from software, better placement and integration of the cooling system into the chassis.

Imagine how poor that would look for the image of your company though...

"Oh we got beaten so we just upped sticks and left."

Not going to happen.

[PlatinumZealot]

With the recent quotes of Toto Wolff saying he wont allow the unfreeze to take place. I honestly don't see Ferrari and Renault hanging around. its essentially racing to be 2nd, especially if they are underpowered and cant develop.
This also lends some validation to Audi joining. perhaps Bernie is securing a new engine maker or team owner. incase he ends up with only mercedes left on the grid?

Fiat Boss says that Formula 1 is a part of Ferrari so as long as F1 is there, Ferrari will be in it.

[ParkerArt]

I can't see how the engine development is still an issue for this season. Other than a few small changes to the fuel, software and part details, everything the engine department should have been doing would be for 2015.

The biggest advantages Mercedes seem to have are in charge cooling, energy recovery for the larger compressor and splitting the turbo assembly.

From Bahrain on, Ferrari and Renault should have seen that this season was over and most of the engine team should have been looking at the 2015 season. If they are still behind Mercedes at Australia, then it isn't Mercedes's fault anymore.

[Juzh]

If they are still behind Mercedes at Australia

Which they will be.

[Nebhotep]

I believe it was Christian Horner who said recently that Mercedes should not be afraid of competition. But he's the same person who said in a press conference that these measures are taken and agreed upon by all teams. It's all --- politics, that's all...

[Skippon]

By this stage Mercedes HPP, Renault and Ferrari should all of put their first 2015 engine on the dyno for prove out.
If Renault and Ferrari are already panicking about a defecit to MAMG-HPP. it probably indicates they know they havn't caught up to this years engine let alone exceeded it.

[aral]

With the recent quotes of Toto Wolff saying he wont allow the unfreeze to take place. I honestly don't see Ferrari and Renault hanging around. its essentially racing to be 2nd, especially if they are underpowered and cant develop.
This also lends some validation to Audi joining. perhaps Bernie is securing a new engine maker or team owner. incase he ends up with only mercedes left on the grid?

I cannot understand why this even merits a new topic!

[ParkerArt]

If they are still behind Mercedes at Australia

Which they will be.

The works team, yeah but that has more to do with a fantastic chassis as well.

The Mercedes PU is most obviously superior in race pace. The internal combustion engines are chiefly limited by the fuel flow rate so the peak power between the three manufacturers should be within a few percent at most. The split turbo compressor and resultant improvement to MAF/intake temperatures pay dividends far over most other hardware changes to the engine itself. If Honda, Renault and Ferrari don't start off the 2015 a as on with split compressor/turbine designs than they are giving away free power.

The harvesting and recovery of energy is also the other key element to Mercedes's domination this year. Regulations cover the amount of energy that braking events (MGU-K) recover as well as how much can be deployed to the wheels. The difference has to be haveresdtef by the MGU-H. Mercedes does not pay a turbo lag penalty for the larger compressor they use as it can be spun up to speed electronically. At higer engine speeds, that larger turbo can and will produce more boost pressure than the engine can utilize because of the fuel flow limit. Rather than vent the excess power through a blow off valve, the MGU-H controls the boost (yes, the engine still does have a BOV for boost surges and the like). The more excess boost, the more harvested energy that can be deployed.

TL;DR all the teams should know where they are losing time and wasting fuel. Most of it isn't going to be made up from combustion engine mechanicals.

Food for thought; at Sochi, Massa couldn't pass Perez when Force India was having to save fuel. That particular event nullified a few variables. A car that was aerodynamically faster, with more raw power from the engine, was beaten over dozens of laps in a situation where tires, hybrid power and racing conditions were the same. Ergo, if Renault and Ferrari had equal hybrid power and cooling efficiency to Mercedes, a peak power deficit would mean that the teams with Renault and Ferrari engines would be far more competitive than they are.

Ferrari needs to admit to the fact they are dealing with a lot more than just a power gap to Mercedes right now.