Honda RA109

[wesley123]

Yes, there was already a topic about it here; http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12&t=19672

[hollus]

Of course there is the possibility that if Honda had competed, the car, having the 2009-must-not-have, KERS, would have been fatter and heavier and suffered a string of DNFs at the beginning of the season. And then there is the possibility that the overstuffed management at Honda would have made sure that everything moved at snail pace in development by comittee. And then Vettel would be a 5 times world champion by now.

[Facts Only]

Any engineer worth his salt can see straight away that someone chucking that many nose designs at the CFD box doesn't know what they're doing and is just flailing about in the dark.

People who were there at the time have told me that the Merc V8 was 50+BHP up the Honda V8 it replaced. I seriously doubt that without the Merc engine, the stripped down management and sense of urgency that Brawn GP had in 2009 that the car would have been anything other than a podium botherer and Red Bull would have started there domination a year earlier.

[NoDivergence]

Not really true. The level of integration for the Mercedes engine was a complete hodge podge. With KERS the Brawn would have been competitive. Rear end aero was also compromised due to the extra length of the Mercedes engine, and think about the development. Brawn did practically no in season development. Honda would have enabled continuous improvements throughout the season.

[Facts Only]

Not really true. The level of integration for the Mercedes engine was a complete hodge podge. With KERS the Brawn would have been competitive. Rear end aero was also compromised due to the extra length of the Mercedes engine, and think about the development. Brawn did practically no in season development. Honda would have enabled continuous improvements throughout the season.

Do you have a source for the claim about the extra length of the Merc engine and the compromised rear aero?

Also even if the Honda unit KERS had worked, 80bhp for 6 seconds would not make up for 50+bhp bhp for the entire lap.

It's a pointless debate anyway, the Brawn/Merc combo won the title and this mythical RA109 never raced. I'm sure much like the stillborn 2010 Toyota people will claim it would have cleaned up
If it had raced knowing it can never been proved either way.

[ollandos]

brawn gp that year run with mercedes engine but with honda gearbox......for save money .....i dont know if it the new or the old honda gearbox.......ross pay only the engine and run the season with out upgrades ....only 3 versions of downforce levels
L-M-H ......

[ollandos]

brawn gp that year run with mercedes engine but with honda gearbox......for save money .....i dont know if it the new or the old honda gearbox.......ross pay only the engine and run the season with out upgrades ....only 3 versions of downforce levels
L-M-H ......

sorry for the second post ....but for the gearbox from honda .....one mayne reason is the rear suspension ........with mercedes gearbox need new desing of rear of the car........

and the final result is mercedes engine honda gear........
branw gp is honda car with only mercedes engine nothing else outside honda.........

p.s.next time honda may keep the name after exit for one year more.............

[J_Clark]

For the love of God, not this myth article about RA109 again.
That car in wind tunnel is RA107, preseason spec, slightly modified for new 2009 aero and 2008 safety rules.
They were probably just experimenting a little bit when the new 2009 rules were announced, nothing more.

http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/misc/hond ... ch1-lg.jpg
http://www.motorstown.com/images/honda-ra107-02.jpg
Airbox, shape of sidepod cooling ducts, mirrors, two bulges on front of monocoque, bulge on the sidepode, engine cover. They are all the same.


http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... 9366f5.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... af8efe.jpg
Exactly the same position of exhaust exits, exactly the same turning vane on the side of the chassis by the mirror.

[zeph]

Isn't this a copyright violation? To repost the article in its entirety, with photos and all.

[flyboy2160]

Bump for merging. There now have been 3 threads about this, which have been merged. Please search for this before posting yet again. Update: since the latest complete quote was a indeed a copyright violation, I've deleted it. The article is already mentioned in this thread.

[wesley123]

Bump my own topic as I was reminded of it's existence.

Anyways, revisiting it I noticed something quite interesting;



These elements on the nose (re)appeared in F1 in I believe 2018. Intriguing to see that this was already being tested in the wind tunnel almost 10 years prior.

[AnthonyG]

Bump my own topic as I was reminded of it's existence.

Anyways, revisiting it I noticed something quite interesting;
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp- ... onda05.jpg
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp- ... onda02.jpg

These elements on the nose (re)appeared in F1 in I believe 2018. Intriguing to see that this was already being tested in the wind tunnel almost 10 years prior.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwI3571WYAE ... name=large

The 2007 and 2008 Honda cars already featured (large) elephant ears.

[Stu]

Bump my own topic as I was reminded of it's existence.

Anyways, revisiting it I noticed something quite interesting;
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp- ... onda05.jpg
https://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp- ... onda02.jpg

These elements on the nose (re)appeared in F1 in I believe 2018. Intriguing to see that this was already being tested in the wind tunnel almost 10 years prior.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwI3571WYAE ... name=large

I seem to recall the Honda ‘world’ car running something similar, now going to spend hours looking at photos of the thing….

…didn’t take as long as I thought!!

https://images.app.goo.gl/JotLsS4osZwSxuXx7

[wesley123]

Indeed cars in the years prior did run solutions on that area. But afaik they became (partly) illegal with the rule changes. It's interesting that they tried a legal, very similar, solution years before it would appear in F1 again

[jjn9128]

Indeed cars in the years prior did run solutions on that area. But afaik they became (partly) illegal with the rule changes. It's interesting that they tried a legal, very similar, solution years before it would appear in F1 again

It basically became impossible to place them on the nose after 2014, but at the AA bulkhead where the nose stepped up from 550mm from the ref to 625mm.