F1 cars are 8 seconds slower than 10 years ago.

[Belatti]

I will tell you what I see:

People complaining about one team dominating, but praising the McLaren Senna Prost era.
People complaining about turbo sound but praising the 80s turbos even if they never measured decibels now and then.
People complaining about slow F1 cars cornering but praising the 70s ground effect cars even if they did not pulled as much Gs as todays.
People complaining about how easy is for todays drivers but failing to understand the difference between todays athletes vs the almost amateurish drivers before Lauda/Prost/Senna and ultimately Schumacher hiperprofessionalizated the sport.
People complaining about an accident like Bianchis and then praising the heroism of past drivers because the big danger the old tracks presented.
People complaining about the lack of privateers success and then saying that what F1 needs is more manufacturers with billion dollar investments.

Im not pointing at anyone in particular here, but all of us sometimes, more or less.
Its the "every past time was better" sindrome in action.

[GitanesBlondes]

Mercedes HPP would beg to differ. Pretty sure the W05 would crush any LMP-H car at a 6 hour race. The car would be able to handle the 24 Le Mans as it is though.

Plus, these cars are hugely limited by the fuel flow rate, as well as total fuel.

Good thing I didn't actually say anything about whether a LMP1 class car would beat a F1 car in a 6 hour race...or even make any sort of claim on that front period. It's also one of those unprovable statements that is fanboy hyperbole.

[ParkerArt]

Mercedes HPP would beg to differ. Pretty sure the W05 would crush any LMP-H car at a 6 hour race. The car would be able to handle the 24 Le Mans as it is though.

Plus, these cars are hugely limited by the fuel flow rate, as well as total fuel.

Good thing I didn't actually say anything about whether a LMP1 class car would beat a F1 car in a 6 hour race...or even make any sort of claim on that front period. It's also one of those unprovable statements that is fanboy hyperbole.

You said the engine in the back of Toyota's and the two sets of MGUs and super capacitors is far more advanced than the F1 powertrains and I would like to disagree. I am currently watching the 6 hours of Shanghai the Toyota TS040 is pounding around as dominantly as the Mercedes W05 did.

The TS 040 is a 6MJ class LMP-H which is allowed 4.6L of petrol fuel per lap. The Mercedes is a 4 MJ hybrid (effectively, 120kW for 33s) with 2MJ from the MGU-K and the rest has to be harvested from the MGU-H and averages ~2.5L of fuel per lap. The Mercedes PU generates maximum power at ~10,500 RPM with a rev limit of 15,000 so the engine is severely fuel limited but still produces over 640PS (at 100 kg/h of fuel).

The Porsche 919 is a 8MJ so is objectively a more impressive hybrid and the hardware from the Mercedes W05 is a more efficient package. If a LMP chassis had a Mercedes MGU-K on the front axle along with the normal ICE, MGU-K and -H in the back, it would be ran as a 8MJ car which would be allowed 4.2L of fuel per lap. With that much fuel, the engine could be run flat out with no lifting and coasting required.

[Andres125sx]

Yesterday pole was 3 tenths faster than 2013 pole, 1:30.0 vs 1:30.3. Not sure about conditions, tires, etc. but I find it noticeable anycase

[Pierce89]

Mercedes HPP would beg to differ. Pretty sure the W05 would crush any LMP-H car at a 6 hour race. The car would be able to handle the 24 Le Mans as it is though.

Plus, these cars are hugely limited by the fuel flow rate, as well as total fuel.

Good thing I didn't actually say anything about whether a LMP1 class car would beat a F1 car in a 6 hour race...or even make any sort of claim on that front period. It's also one of those unprovable statements that is fanboy hyperbole.

You said the engine in the back of Toyota's and the two sets of MGUs and super capacitors is far more advanced than the F1 powertrains and I would like to disagree. I am currently watching the 6 hours of Shanghai the Toyota TS040 is pounding around as dominantly as the Mercedes W05 did.

The TS 040 is a 6MJ class LMP-H which is allowed 4.6L of petrol fuel per lap. The Mercedes is a 4 MJ hybrid (effectively, 120kW for 33s) with 2MJ from the MGU-K and the rest has to be harvested from the MGU-H and averages ~2.5L of fuel per lap. The Mercedes PU generates maximum power at ~10,500 RPM with a rev limit of 15,000 so the engine is severely fuel limited but still produces over 640PS (at 100 kg/h of fuel).

The Porsche 919 is a 8MJ so is objectively a more impressive hybrid and the hardware from the Mercedes W05 is a more efficient package. If a LMP chassis had a Mercedes MGU-K on the front axle along with the normal ICE, MGU-K and -H in the back, it would be ran as a 8MJ car which would be allowed 4.2L of fuel per lap. With that much fuel, the engine could be run flat out with no lifting and coasting required.

Well, if you're going to try and educate someone, get your facts correct. Porsche does not race in the 8mj class but 6mj, same as Toyota.

[Pierce89]

Yesterday pole was 3 tenths faster than 2013 pole, 1:30.0 vs 1:30.3. Not sure about conditions, tires, etc. but I find it noticeable anycase

Stated on previous page.

[Tommy Cookers]

... The Mercedes is a 4 MJ hybrid (effectively, 120kW for 33s) with 2MJ from the MGU-K and the rest has to be harvested from the MGU-H .....

the 4 MJ limit applies only to stored energy
there is no energy use limit on energy going directly (ie 'real-time') from mgu-h generation to mgu-k motoring
in principle the rules allow the mgu-k to run at 120 kW every second of every lap
there is no 33 sec rule or anything like that

[siskue2005]

fastest f1 lap ever at Interlagos ...faster than 2004 cars

[Blanchimont]

Very impressive, but not fastest lap ever. In 2004 there was a 1:09,822 done by Rubens, so 6 tenths to go.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/db/r ... r=18&s=p11

[Moose]

Not surprising that this came at Interlagos. The turbos will be offsetting the altitude, and getting the engines a whole bunch more horses available than they've had in past years.

[siskue2005]

i forgot about pre quly

[Juzh]

Why are people comparing apples to oranges when those lap times are totally incomparable. This new and smooth tarmac gives you A LOT of laptime.

[Blanchimont]

Why are people comparing apples to oranges when those lap times are totally incomparable. This new and smooth tarmac gives you A LOT of laptime.

I wouldn't say totally incomparable, just keep the different specs in mind. In 2004 the cars minimum weight was 605 kg(691 today), we had grooved tyres(slicks today), V10 engines vs. V6 turbo (~850hp vs ~800hp), no DRS, track surface and ambient conditions probably differ.

[Juzh]

Why are people comparing apples to oranges when those lap times are totally incomparable. This new and smooth tarmac gives you A LOT of laptime.

I wouldn't say totally incomparable, just keep the different specs in mind. In 2004 the cars minimum weight was 605 kg(691 today), we had grooved tyres(slicks today), V10 engines vs. V6 turbo (~850hp vs ~800hp), no DRS, track surface and ambient conditions probably differ.

Moto gp gained 6s in Indianapolis this year on tamrac change alone.

[siskue2005]

1.09.8