Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
I don't think I made my point clearly. The way the business model is set up, the promoters get the smallest slice of the pie but take most of the risk. I frankly don't understand why anyone would want to promote a F1 race. Of course, quite a few are just stooges for a national government that is the real party in interest, viz. Singapore, Malaysia, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Russia and probably several others.
None of the real individual promoters have made the billions Bernie has.
Just another inexplicable example of how smart people have exalted Bernie at the expense of their own self interest.
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.
xpensive wrote:But each promoter pays at least 30 MUSD to MrE, 20 races makes 600 MUSD per season, think about it.
New tracks say "please can you come here, how much do you want?" and pay the bill despite the lack of ticket sales to the fans. In contrast the old tracks protest about the fees and go through a brinkmanship ritual at renewal when Bernie threatens to withdraw and the track refuse to sign up to his conditions.
One would expect the new tracks begging for a race are paying more than the old tracks who protest. So tracks with fans bring less money than the tracks without.
That's a concise synopsis, Richard. I believe the new track at Sochi seats only about 55,000. How does that possibly make any sense from a commercial or fiscal point of view?
So let's see......delivering the sport to a global audience via "new media?" Nope. No interest. Delivering the sport to a bunch of rabid fans actually seated in the stands and paying good money for the privilege? Meh,,,,,if they come, they come. If they don't, it doesn't make that much difference to us.
No matter how you slice it, the fans have become irrelevant to the money making process. Which is why the racing is so out of whack. Pleasing the fans has little to nothing to do with the financial success of the sport.
I have trouble understanding how that can possibly be a sustainable business model. But Bernie is a multi-billionaire and I am a relative pauper. Maybe I am just too stupid to "get it."
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.
Richard wrote:
...
One would expect the new tracks begging for a race are paying more than the old tracks who protest. So tracks with fans bring less money than the tracks without.
Either way, without the taxpayers' money, there would be no Formula 1 race held anywhere, that is the sickening part.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
Richard wrote:
...
One would expect the new tracks begging for a race are paying more than the old tracks who protest. So tracks with fans bring less money than the tracks without.
Either way, without the taxpayers' money, there would be no Formula 1 race held anywhere, that is the sickening part.
Well, we have Austin in conservative and republic Texas. Basically they'll flail you if you ask for government support over there. It's safe to say they aren't getting that and are getting the deficit either from loans, fundraisers or own pocket.
I just did a quick check, and apperently it did create some controversy back when the track was still being built.
However, 10 years ago this sort of funding was unthinkable. Inbetween 2006 and 2009, it was less then 23m (in the METF). 2011 alone gave funding for 78m. How times change.
xpensive wrote:Come on, the US government bailed out Chrysler 35 years ago!
Under a democratic president and if I assume correctly with a democratic majority in the house and senate. Texas on the other hand is by heart republic. Was and always be. The only thing that changes is the philosophy and ethic behind the republics.
xpensive wrote:Come on, the US government bailed out Chrysler 35 years ago!
Under a democratic president and if I assume correctly with a democratic majority in the house and senate. Texas on the other hand is by heart republic. Was and always be. The only thing that changes is the philosophy and ethic behind the republics.
Texas? Ha, Lyndon Baines Johnson and his "Great society" rings a bell?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive wrote:Come on, the US government bailed out Chrysler 35 years ago!
Under a democratic president and if I assume correctly with a democratic majority in the house and senate. Texas on the other hand is by heart republic. Was and always be. The only thing that changes is the philosophy and ethic behind the republics.
Texas? Ha, Lyndon Baines Johnson and his "Great society" rings a bell?
Yes, a rare occurance. But I believe that even during his time as president Texas still was majorily republic?
That's going off topic btw; the particular fund is based on tax-recuperation. It's effectively paid with the revenue in taxes that the economic boost by said event generates. If the events fails to generate it, they simply get scrabbed.
A majority of track deals are funded by taxes. It's hard to avoid the presumption that FIA it's like FIFA, based on bribes, because if you don't there is no way you can justify them based on the business part of the deals.
Andrew Jennings: "Do you know which football officials took payments?" Sepp Blatter: "I don't answer these questions"
A.J.: "Asking these questions infuriates President Blatter. I'm the only journalist in the world banned from FIFA's headquarters"
Ecclestone paid 100 millions to end his bribery trial
No Angel: the secret life of Bernie Ecclestone
I think that the era from 1960 to 2000 was truly exceptional, no only for cars but for venues and fans. That era, when 90% of the cars were literally made in England (not Great Britain) has ended.
The new era, in which car manufacturers dominate the sport, outside England has arrived.
In this era the clients are Governments and TV moguls.
The fans come from any corner of the world.
It's like FIFA: most of the venues are made using literally billions, paid by taxes to support a Government façade.
For example, most of the fans of Barcelona F.C. are not from Catalonia, rest assured.
Yeah, I know, she has the uniform of Brazil, but is she a REAL fan? Do you really like this kind of fans?
Perhaps many (not all, not you, of course) fans do not go to the stadium or the track.
Are these girls real tifosi? Isn't that a shame?
Many never race.
Many never teach racing.
In fact, many fans are adepts to the images of racing, not to the sound and smell of racing.
Many fans have never feel the vibration of a steering wheel nor have an idea of how it feels understeering when you push a 400 hp engine.
Vibration... does she understand it? I say NO!!! She doesn't. Am I too harsh? Perhaps she does?
Many fans understand understeering, but they don't know what it is.
Is this what you call a race line? Really?
In the end, you get the market mentality of Mr. Ecclestone and friends. These friends don't care if the business is run by crooks. Actually, they admire those crooks. They want to be those crooks.
Old fans are, perhaps like me (at least I would like to be), a minority. I see many of them here, at F1 Technical, even if some only in spirit.
Eric Clapton, guitar legend and old F1 fan, walking the lane at Silverstone.
No Lewis Hamilton fan, if you ask me, ehem, ehem... You know what? Don't ask me.
Yeah, I know, perhaps that's not the way to make friends these days.
And you know what?
I do care. Nothing is more important that young friends.
Do you really like this kind of fans? 
