Negativity and Haterism trend....

[xpensive]

What's the WSC?

Dunno, you tell me?

[turbof1]

To be honest the last few posts are sickening. The thread has been made to highlight that even F1 has (a lot) of flaws currently, there are good sides to the story too.

Over the last few months we had NUMEROUS threads that attacked the current affairs F1. Mostly with good reason too. However, when one threads pops up to be actually positive about aspects of the sport, it inmediately gets attacked as good news show or that every negative thing gets buried. It tells more about these persons their behaviour then anything else.

Criticism is needed to run something effectively. However again the last few posts go too far and reflect how sour these persons can be. You don't like a positive twist? Fine, then don't post. However to hammer on that we should all revell in the misery and then also claim the thread is born out of fanboyism is a bridge too far.

Locked until I get a handle on things.

[Richard]

...

You hit the nail on the head. The prevailing group think is that F1 is terrible and heaven forbid that anyone says they enjoyed this season because they'll be bombarded with people saying it's terrible.

I agree that F1 should be a manufacturers engine showcase. As far as I'm aware all the manufacturers are desperately showcasing turbo and hyrbid cars.

As for overtaking, it's at the same level as 1985. http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

[turbof1]

Reopened. Just to be clear, criticism is allowed but do so appropiately according to the topic. If you feel nothing but hate and contempt for F1: there are enough other topics for that. We respect that you criticise, so respect other who praise aspects of f1 too.

[xpensive]

I believe that Formula 1 has become a tad too similar to WEC to some traditionalists, only with open wheels, but that's just me.

[Moose]

I believe that Formula 1 has become a tad too similar to WEC to some traditionalists, only with open wheels, but that's just me.

The problem is "become" is the wrong world. These traditionalists are simply imagining a past that didn't exist, in which you didn't have to manage your tires. This was only true in the dull 2004 era F1.

[wesley123]

Imagine some of the old seasons from the golden era but with DRS used by everyone then answer honestly would it be an improvement or not.

Imagine the old seasons with the same wake the current cars produce.

DRS is artifical and isn't a perfect solution, but cars nowadays just loose too much downforce when following an other car. Let's not turn this into a DRS polemic, that should be reserved for a different topic.

Seeing the large airbrakes those cars ran, I can't imagine they did not have the issue of losing lots of downforce.

[xpensive]

...
This was only true in the dull 2004 era F1.

Is that as far back as you can recall?

[turbof1]

Imagine some of the old seasons from the golden era but with DRS used by everyone then answer honestly would it be an improvement or not.

Imagine the old seasons with the same wake the current cars produce.

DRS is artifical and isn't a perfect solution, but cars nowadays just loose too much downforce when following an other car. Let's not turn this into a DRS polemic, that should be reserved for a different topic.

http://www.barchetta.cc/Common/Images/S ... o.1984.jpg

Seeing the large airbrakes those cars ran, I can't imagine they did not have the issue of losing lots of downforce.

Yeah that's huge . I still believe despite that, that current cars are much more sensitive the ones in previous era's. DRS might not be the perfect solution, it might not be a good solution at all, but it is an solution none the less. I also think the primary objection, cars just blowing past other cars due DRS, got a bit diminished over the years since the FIA tweaked it.

In some cases it led to jaw opening racing. Without DRS, the closing battling between Hamilton and Rosberg in Bahrain would never have happened. Artificial and in quite a few cases unfair, but it is often entertaining.

[turbof1]

...
This was only true in the dull 2004 era F1.

Is that as far back as you can recall?

Fuel and tyre managing happened too in previous era's. Last year there was too much emphasis on tyre management, I agree. This year that seems to be rather ok. But to be honest: do we even notice they are saving fuel nowadays? Before the season started we had fears all over the place that each race cars would simply stop due not enough fuel. That turned out to be rather panic over nothing. Ironically, the last time somebody really had fuel issues to the point they had to slow down seconds a lap was last year with Hamilton in Malaysia. The last time somebody had to drive under 9000rpm was in 2009, when refueling was still allowed but Massa didn't got enough fuel in his tank!

[Manoah2u]

i general i don't really appreciate DRS indeed for it's highly artificial. However, and drivers state this themselves, it's the same for everyone, and it more or less replicates slipstreaming. With slipstreaming, the leading car did not have the ability to have this advantage either, but the following car did offcourse. When the following car then overtakes the leading car due to slipstreaming, the roles are reversed - and this can be repeated on and on.

Same essentially for DRS.

It's still planning to overtake. DRS is a huge advantage sometimes but just the same we've seen cars with the flap open trying to overtake cars that couldn't use their DRS and it did not always work out. Obviously a part in that has to do with the energy boost from the electric harvesting, but that just shows there are multiple ways to battle.

Drivers will have to save energy so they can use it at the moment they are planning to use it for overtaking, preferably paired with DRS. The driver in front however will try to save aswell so he can try and block it through the same tactic, but without DRS.

but anyway, F1 always has been the subject of change paired with 'progress'.

in the beginning, there were no wings on the cars. people didn't like or thought it looked weird at first, the wings.
Now the cars look weird without wings......

[Moose]

...
This was only true in the dull 2004 era F1.

Is that as far back as you can recall?

That's the point - I can recall further back than that. Further back than that, tyre management was a huge part of the sport. So much so that we saw pit stops introduced because it was faster to change tires than to try to manage them through a whole race distance.

The michelin/bridgestone era was the only time in F1's entire history when tire management has not been an issue.

[strad]

Yes i do, whether DRS is part of it or not is completely irrelevant to whether a wheel to wheel battle occurred or not.

I ask once again, What wheel to wheel battles? I can't recall once.
A wheel to wheel battle is when two or more drivers go at it hammer and tongs for lap after lap.
Not when one breezes past using DRS. I've said before, I don't care if I see one successful pass, IF they are fighting for it.
They can't because their tires would go off and they would use too much fuel.

[langwadt]

Imagine the old seasons with the same wake the current cars produce.

DRS is artifical and isn't a perfect solution, but cars nowadays just loose too much downforce when following an other car. Let's not turn this into a DRS polemic, that should be reserved for a different topic.

http://www.barchetta.cc/Common/Images/S ... o.1984.jpg

Seeing the large airbrakes those cars ran, I can't imagine they did not have the issue of losing lots of downforce.

Yeah that's huge . I still believe despite that, that current cars are much more sensitive the ones in previous era's. DRS might not be the perfect solution, it might not be a good solution at all, but it is an solution none the less. I also think the primary objection, cars just blowing past other cars due DRS, got a bit diminished over the years since the FIA tweaked it.

In some cases it led to jaw opening racing. Without DRS, the closing battling between Hamilton and Rosberg in Bahrain would never have happened. Artificial and in quite a few cases unfair, but it is often entertaining.

and even if DRS means you can just blow past we get to see the race to get in to and stay out of the one second gap
with out DRS we just got a few fast laps when the other guy was in the pits

[Gaz.]

Yes i do, whether DRS is part of it or not is completely irrelevant to whether a wheel to wheel battle occurred or not.

I ask once again, What wheel to wheel battles? I can't recall once.
A wheel to wheel battle is when two or more drivers go at it hammer and tongs for lap after lap.
Not when one breezes past using DRS. I've said before, I don't care if I see one successful pass, IF they are fighting for it.
They can't because their tires would go off and they would use too much fuel.

When did drivers ever go hammer and tongs, battling & fighting for lap after lap? I've been watching since the German GP of 1986 and just don't remember such dog fighting for more than a few laps at most so we are talking 30+ years ago...



My first F1 race and a guy trying to pass ran out of fuel on the last lap.