Which token would You choose??

[pastaracing]

If you were Renault or Ferrari, how would do you think when picking the right tokens to update your motor concept for 2015??

Obviously you have to think about the turbo and the MGU-H because this was your weak point of 2014

The problem is that you only allowed to pick 32 points from the list.

Where would you put your focus??



Here is a link to the complete technical regulations:
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... -06-29.pdf

[Paul]

You don't work for Ferrari or Renault, do you?

They probably know their weak spots better than anyone here; MGU-H and pressure charging changes are likely if you believe the rumours, and they aren't too costly, which is a good thing for them.

[pastaracing]

I'm not working with F1-engines

I see a problem though, is there enough room for them to catch Mercedes??

If You look at the table there is 10 points that you only aloowed to change to next season, if you not pay attension to that, then is it not possible to change it afterwards.

If you have to change this, there is not points left to change all the weak points of the engine.

[Paul]

Playing the long game is nice, but teams they are supplying are desperate for quick improvement. So if they are more or less happy with the parts they won't be able to change later, they will leave them alone and go for the weakest spots.

[gruntguru]

Easier to guess the things they don't need to change. If you start at the top of the list, all the items down to "ENGINE WATER PUMPS" add to a total of 34 points. My guess is they will leave most of these unchanged. If they need to change some of these, there are a few others down the list that are probably low priority for upgrade e.g. "ELECTRICAL, LUBRICATION, IGNITION, FRICTION COATINGS, SEALS "

I hope the token selections for each team are to be published. That will give a fascinating insight into which areas the teams believe they are behind Mercedes.

[pastaracing]

I don't understand 'Trumpets' on the inlet system, do they get punished for that, thats a new feature for 2015 ??

[gruntguru]

Good point. The mention of "actuators" (which are not relevant in 2014) would seem to indicate a decision to implement the new rule allowing variable intakes would cost the team one token.

Now if they were clever they could have designed and implemented the hardware in the original engine design then "switch it on" for 2015 with no cost in tokens.

I will be interested to see how many engine suppliers actually do a variable intake. IMHO the gains would be very marginal compared to the cost and complexity. A small improvement in VE over some of the rpm range has little benefit - only a slight reduction in boost requirement at those rpms, resulting in a minuscule increase in turbine power available to the MGUH. Somebody please correct me if they see any benefit beyond this.

[pastaracing]

Ok, a look of what they have to change to be competitive for next season:

Injection system (Mercedes go for 500bar, Ferrari an Renault have to do the same ?) 2pts
Inlet system and pressure charging, 9pts
Following with above, electrical and ignition system, 2pts
The whole hybrid system, 16points.

Then they have to change at least some dimensions of the crankcase to get room for a new turbo system(split turbo?) 3pts

And, I think, because of the developed petrol, update the combustion, 3pts.

Thats 37 points, well over the maximum 32 available.
So they have to keep some of the 'bad' parts.

They are also behind in developement from Mercedes who can change a lot more of the less important things and therfore be able to keep the advantage.

[wuzak]

Injection system (Mercedes go for 500bar, Ferrari an Renault have to do the same ?) 2pts

Ferrari, and maybe Renault too, are already at 500bar. 2 Points saved.

[gruntguru]

"Inlet system and pressure charging 9pts" Why does that need changing?

[wuzak]

"Inlet system and pressure charging 9pts" Why does that need changing?

Because a couple of manufacturers may have undersized their systems....

If rumours are correct that Ferrari are splitting their turbo along the lines of Merc, surely that amounts to a change in pressure charging, even if the compressor remains the same?

[gruntguru]

I can see different compressor and turbine being needed (4 pts) but intake plumbing? I would be very surprised if any of these engines need increased air volume flow beyond what the current plumbing can handle.

[wuzak]

I can see different compressor and turbine being needed (4 pts) but intake plumbing? I would be very surprised if any of these engines need increased air volume flow beyond what the current plumbing can handle.

If you're Ferrari and Renault you would look into the Log exhausts, surely? That's Pressure Charging - From exhaust flange to turbine inlet. And even if you don't go for the log exhaust, any repositioing of the turbine or its resizing will require modified exhaust headers.

Pressure-Charging - Actuators may also need to be changed for any repositioning of turbo components. 1 point.

Unless you want variable trumpets, I can't see them being changed. Diubtful taht he throttles need changing. The plenum could be changed if the compressor is moved.

[turbof1]

I can see different compressor and turbine being needed (4 pts) but intake plumbing? I would be very surprised if any of these engines need increased air volume flow beyond what the current plumbing can handle.

If you're Ferrari and Renault you would look into the Log exhausts, surely? That's Pressure Charging - From exhaust flange to turbine inlet. And even if you don't go for the log exhaust, any repositioing of the turbine or its resizing will require modified exhaust headers.

Pressure-Charging - Actuators may also need to be changed for any repositioning of turbo components. 1 point.

Unless you want variable trumpets, I can't see them being changed. Diubtful taht he throttles need changing. The plenum could be changed if the compressor is moved.

Rumors are Mercedes is moving away from the log exhausts. In essence the log exhaust is a trade-off: less power from the engine, more power from the mgu-h. Since the whole system is only allowed to transfer 120kW to the drivetrain, one could assume Mercedes either reached that target for lap after lap, or they found a more efficient way to come closer to said limit, making the log exhausts redundant and going back to a normal exhaust system would yield more power from the engine.

If that's true, then other teams need to achieve the same thing which would allow them to spare tokens. The question is if they are able to; they effectively need to find much bigger gains in the tokens they change then mercedes needs to.

[Blackout]

I can see different compressor and turbine being needed (4 pts) but intake plumbing? I would be very surprised if any of these engines need increased air volume flow beyond what the current plumbing can handle.

If you're Ferrari and Renault you would look into the Log exhausts, surely? That's Pressure Charging - From exhaust flange to turbine inlet. And even if you don't go for the log exhaust, any repositioing of the turbine or its resizing will require modified exhaust headers.
Pressure-Charging - Actuators may also need to be changed for any repositioning of turbo components. 1 point.
Unless you want variable trumpets, I can't see them being changed. Diubtful taht he throttles need changing. The plenum could be changed if the compressor is moved.

AFAIK, only one PU can be homologated. The Merc powered cars and the Ferrai ones use the same exhaust while the Renault cars use different solutions. But when I read the tokens table, changing the exhaust (pressure charging: from engine exhaut flanges to turbine inlet) will cost a point. So...wtf? which Renault exhaust solution is the 'homologated' one?

In another subject, the Renault and Merc MGUs seem to be positioned the same way: the K is placed low at the left of the engine and the H lies in the V. While Ferrari has a completely different layout: H is behind the engine, between the compressor and the turbine and the K is behind the crankshaft. So Ferrari would spend more tokens than Renault if both adopt the split turbo architecture IMO.
http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/14/79/55/26/ren_me10.jpg
http://i59.servimg.com/u/f59/14/79/55/26/merc_r10.jpg

The whole hybrid system, 16points.

The whole system? why?

Then they have to change at least some dimensions of the crankcase to get room for a new turbo system(split turbo?) 3pts

the crankcase? why?