Return Of The Mighty V-10?

[GitanesBlondes]

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

Sure, but they´re increasing taxes both to host a F1 GP and for broadcasting wich is ok while there still are enough audience but, what will happen when TV channels and tracks stop paying those taxes because they don´t get enough income to make the investment profitable?

We´re not that far from that point, TV audience falling down, track stands half-empty or almost completely empty....

Sure both attendance and ratings are down, but it's not yet reached critical mass.

Best as I can tell, Bernie has a whole slew of venues ready to take over the hosting of grands prix if any of the current circuits decide that they've had enough of paying his prices. The only untouchable grand prix left in Europe is Monaco as that is the one race that has the exact image F1 wants all of their races to project.

The Middle East along with the rest of the third world despot set is still looking to buy credibility by way of sporting events, so they'll all continue paying the money to host desert races and the like.

[Andres125sx]

A lot of people are forgetting that F1 is run solely as an investment for CVC. They will do the bare minimum to ensure they are making money. They didn't buy into F1 for altruistic reasons.

Sure, but they´re increasing taxes both to host a F1 GP and for broadcasting wich is ok while there still are enough audience but, what will happen when TV channels and tracks stop paying those taxes because they don´t get enough income to make the investment profitable?

We´re not that far from that point, TV audience falling down, track stands half-empty or almost completely empty....

Sure both attendance and ratings are down, but it's not yet reached critical mass.

....yet

To analize this sort of things more important than the current number is the tendency.... What´s F1 tendency?


Now we can do a bet about how long it will take to reach the critical mass, but reaching the critical mass is out of question with current tendency

Best as I can tell, Bernie has a whole slew of venues ready to take over the hosting of grands prix if any of the current circuits decide that they've had enough of paying his prices. The only untouchable grand prix left in Europe is Monaco as that is the one race that has the exact image F1 wants all of their races to project.

The Middle East along with the rest of the third world despot set is still looking to buy credibility by way of sporting events, so they'll all continue paying the money to host desert races and the like.

Nice, and they will have a championship with no on track attendance and no TV viewers....

So basically they´ll get money from third world, CVC will continue earning money, TV audience will continue falling down.... and once we reach the critical mass no TV will pay the high prices, no audience for F1, third world will no longer be interested on paying high prices if nobody watch the races.... and F1 will dissapear....


All you said is correct for next seasson, but anyone with a business mind will look further, and once you look at the tendency and the future in 5-10 years the view is quite depressing

[turbof1]

Depending on some or other oil sheik is asking for problems. They all want the most fancy status symbol. One day they'll invest in F1 because it makes them look good, only to drop it the next day and invest in something with more appeal.

They don't care one bit about racing, which means they have no loyalty at all to the sport, which in turns makes them very independable.

[xpensive]

...
They don't care one bit about racing, which means they have no loyalty at all to the sport, which in turns makes them very independable.

Oh but they do turbomod;



He does not;



But he does;

[GitanesBlondes]

....yet

To analize this sort of things more important than the current number is the tendency.... What´s F1 tendency?
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... Y616oPhSCt

Now we can do a bet about how long it will take to reach the critical mass, but reaching the critical mass is out of question with current tendency

Nice, and they will have a championship with no on track attendance and no TV viewers....

So basically they´ll get money from third world, CVC will continue earning money, TV audience will continue falling down.... and once we reach the critical mass no TV will pay the high prices, no audience for F1, third world will no longer be interested on paying high prices if nobody watch the races.... and F1 will dissapear....


All you said is correct for next seasson, but anyone with a business mind will look further, and once you look at the tendency and the future in 5-10 years the view is quite depressing

I think as needed they will try and address how the product comes across on TV more than anything only because of the need to command high TV rights fees. Whether or not fans attend grands prix races are irrelevant as any money from ticket sales goes back to the race circuit, so what does CVC care?

Mexico City is only back on the calendar because they are willing to fork over the required price.

India and Korea could not so they were gone for 2014 and into the future most likely.

Right now we'd have a French Grand Prix, and races at more European venues if all of the circuits were willing to pay the price for the races. Money is the only thing that gets anything done in F1.

[SectorOne]

Depending on some or other oil sheik is asking for problems. They all want the most fancy status symbol. One day they'll invest in F1 because it makes them look good, only to drop it the next day and invest in something with more appeal.

They don't care one bit about racing, which means they have no loyalty at all to the sport, which in turns makes them very independable.

And as an oil sheikh yourself you know exactly what you are talking about.

[turbof1]

Depending on some or other oil sheik is asking for problems. They all want the most fancy status symbol. One day they'll invest in F1 because it makes them look good, only to drop it the next day and invest in something with more appeal.

They don't care one bit about racing, which means they have no loyalty at all to the sport, which in turns makes them very independable.

And as an oil sheikh yourself you know exactly what you are talking about.

Well as an economist who has seen the vices of sheikhs first hand, I can tell you that they are honorable men but everything they do publicly is a mostly a showcase of their status. There are exceptions of course. Behind the scenes they are very good men actually, supporting the lower community and giving a lot to charity.

For most of the Sheikh's that are in F1, it's a status symbol. That's the reality unfortunaly.

@Xalted, just posing posing with Bernie and Todt doesn't change the fact they are using it as a status symbol or PR. Remember: Poetin did the very same thing. For more political reasons of course, but posing with the F1 bosses doesn't mean the underlying reason is F1. Sheikh Faisal Bin Qassim Al however is a race enthousiast, that I agree with.

[SectorOne]

Well as an economist who has seen the vices of sheikhs first hand, I can tell you that they are honorable men but everything they do publicly is a mostly a showcase of their status.

Basically it´s like saying

"oh white people likes this"
"black people likes this"
"CEO`s always do this, trust me, i know"

It´s just an incredibly ignorant way of talking about human beings which you put in the same folder because they happen to get their "dough" from oil.
It´s like "f/ck all the personality and everything else that makes you all individuals, i´m just gonna assume all of you are the same"

[turbof1]

Well as an economist who has seen the vices of sheikhs first hand, I can tell you that they are honorable men but everything they do publicly is a mostly a showcase of their status.

Basically it´s like saying

"oh white people likes this"
"black people likes this"
"CEO`s always do this, trust me, i know"

It´s just an incredibly ignorant way of talking about human beings which you put in the same folder because they happen to get their "dough" from oil.
It´s like "f/ck all the personality and everything else that makes you all individuals, i´m just gonna assume all of you are the same"

I think you misunderstood; I'm not judging their personality. Infact I told that they are honorable man, but understand that the Sheikh life in a upper social culture that puts pressure on them to give glance to stature. Status and how they are perceived is very important in that part of society, in a bad, good or indifferent way. I don't think you know how tough that actually is for them, since they need to do this while keeping true to the Koran. It's religion verses culture for them.

I'm not here to make a polemic either. If anybody feels they should reply on this, reply in a PM.

[SectorOne]

I think you misunderstood; I'm not judging their personality.

Seemed like you took every oil-sheik and just made a general statement about them.

"They all want the most fancy status symbol."
"One day they'll invest in F1 because it makes them look good,"
" only to drop it the next day and invest in something with more appeal. "
"They don't care one bit about racing, which means they have no loyalty at all to the sport,"

I don't think you know how tough that actually is for them, since they need to do this while keeping true to the Koran. It's religion verses culture for them.

No they don´t need to buy companies left and right because of the koran. The koran itself has no concept of companies.

[xpensive]

...
For most of the Sheikh's that are in F1, it's a status symbol. That's the reality unfortunaly.

@Xalted, just posing posing with Bernie and Todt doesn't change the fact they are using it as a status symbol or PR. Remember: Poetin did the very same thing. For more political reasons of course, but posing with the F1 bosses doesn't mean the underlying reason is F1. Sheikh Faisal Bin Qassim Al however is a race enthousiast, that I agree with.

Just pondering, do you have any idea of the meaning of "Sheikh", the way you are using it, it's comes across as demeaning?

This is a western sheikh though, perhaps more to your liking turbomod?;

[turbof1]

...
For most of the Sheikh's that are in F1, it's a status symbol. That's the reality unfortunaly.

@Xalted, just posing posing with Bernie and Todt doesn't change the fact they are using it as a status symbol or PR. Remember: Poetin did the very same thing. For more political reasons of course, but posing with the F1 bosses doesn't mean the underlying reason is F1. Sheikh Faisal Bin Qassim Al however is a race enthousiast, that I agree with.

Just pondering, do you have any idea of the meaning of "Sheikh", the way you are using it, it's comes across as demeaning?

This is a western sheikh though, perhaps more to your liking turbomod?;

http://www.progarchives.com/progressive ... 112010.jpg

This has gone out of hand; I might have formulated my first sentence poorly of the post that started this. Besides that the topic went down the cliff.

I'll leave the post about Sheikh's untouched. If anybody feels they should reply on this, do so in a PM. Further replies about Sheikh's in this topic will however be removed from now on..

FYI, discussion on topic will of course continue. The topic is not closed!

[garrett]

There was a transcript with Bernie recently that Christian Sylt posted on Forbes.com where when you actually read the answers Bernie gives, you'll see he's quite in command of everything that is going on as well as quite lucid.

So I ask you what do you expect else from an article of Christian Sylt? To say he is "close to Bernie Ecclestone" would be an understatement.

Concerning the thread title, the probability of the return of the V-10 screamers is asymptotic at zero as (to my knowledge) no one of the key figures of F1 is under guardianship at the moment. Being just the bogaboo for MB. There isn´t even - in contrary to german ams-reports - an agreement over the 2016 regulations. There is only an agreement concerning further engine development in 2015 and there is a proposal from MB to provide their hybrid technology for the other two manufacturers in the future which should be a quite decent deal for both sides imo.

[GitanesBlondes]

There was a transcript with Bernie recently that Christian Sylt posted on Forbes.com where when you actually read the answers Bernie gives, you'll see he's quite in command of everything that is going on as well as quite lucid.

So I ask you what do you expect else from an article of Christian Sylt? To say he is "close to Bernie Ecclestone" would be an understatement.

It was a media day where Bernie was open to questions from the media. Bernie has been playing the senile act for going on over 20 years now. The F1 fans at large still are oblivious to this though. The man is quite in command of what is going on. Sylt being close to him means precisely nothing on this subject.

[McMrocks]

ok here we go again: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 43719.html (link doesn't work anymore for me) teams discuss "new" engine formula for 2016 (or 2017)
- try to make cars more difficult to drive
- cost saving

furhter topics discussed:
- more hp (up to 1,200)
- louder engines ( discussion about tail pipe size, waste gate, amount of turbo's, possibly bi-turbo (the packaging nightmare))
- less aero (that's what the article says...you better don't look at the pictures delivered with this article)
- wider tyres
- cars looking more agressive (what can possibly look more agressive than a d*ck at the front of your car?)
- standard ERS (re cost saving)

I don't want to say whether they're wrong or right doing so but i hope they know what they're doing