Okay Bernie really has to go~

[Manoah2u]

But when was F1 the pinnacle? and what conciders it to be the pinnacle?

If it is about technology transferred to the street, then it never has been for ages. Active suspension? Active Aero?
Stuff of the 80's and 90's, but did F1 generally invent that and did it end up in road cars after F1 engineers 'discovered'
this use? and how did it get to road-relevance? did a company 'buy' the information from a constructor?

or did manufacturers understand the idea and worked it out their own?

i'll admit i'm fairly blank on what cars in the 80's and 90's benefitted from F1 tech.
I know the Mclaren P1 uses active suspension which essentially has been around from F1 since the 80s.
I know the Ferrari F458 and the Porsche 918 use active aero on their cars.

But what about actual road cars, I hardly can call a hypercar like a P1 'usable' - it's not at all even remotely accessible for normal road use. And that Williams gearbox from the what was it early 90's? Which car actually uses that?
Is there a road-going renault with carbon brakes? with drs? the Williams flywheel? the gearbox? split turbo?
The previous v8 engine? Pirelli tires? Pullrod suspension? Exhaust blown diffusers? Double decker diffusors?
F-duct?

Is there actually any road car that (directly) benefits from the F1 'pinnacle' platform? Anything at all? Has there ever been? how many? enough to even remotely conider F1 ever was the 'pinnacle'??? Or is it just romantisized drama?

Then why do we constantly slam 'pinnacle' on the table when quite frankly i dare to se it's mere BS talk?

What exactly defines that pinnacle then?

If the defenition is to be 'the very best motorsport has to offer', then we instantly run into a problem. Because to achieve that, all regulations have to go. Because any rule would be restrictive of motorsport development. A plus side would be we'd see amazing engineering inventions and philosophies come to life. down side would be extreme overdomination of a single team with no competition even remotely close. and an insane rise in development costs. too much development costs. more teams say goodbye. no more F1. end of story.
so what it is is that we need rules and restrictions.
And that's just as simple as it is.
And without forgetting the most important constance in the universe; standing still is going backwards.
So the only solution to go forwards is by implementing rules and adapting them to and for the future.

And since the word 'pinnacle' is so keen to being used in F1; isn't it an absolute 'pinnacle' what a team like Mercedes has done this past year with the new rules? Isn't it the 'pinnacle' of motorsport what RedBull did with Newey the past 4 years?
Wouldn't it be the absolute 'pinnacle' of Honda to come in and take on the giant Mercedes in 2015?

So.....what's the problem?

[Nickel]

How anyone can ignore the interest of modern technology baffles me. If F1 were to drop or reduce ers, I'd consider no longer watching.

There is no crossover and no use for this package on road cars so that doesn't fly. AND if having proper racing would send you to another sport then I don't consider you much of a racing fan because what we have now is not F1 racing.
I would like F1 to go back to being the pinnacle of racing not some technological Mobile Gas economy runs with a bunch of phony BS.

I couldn't care less about road relevance. I care about watching the pinnacle of modern technology. They could do better with more open rules, but IMO, if you're not recovering wasted energy from your engine, you're in the past and that's not why I watch F1. As for Gas economy? No one is even using the allowed 100kg of fuel for a race. They're saving fuel because it's the optimum strategy, just like they did 10 years ago and before.

As for quality wheel to wheel racing? I don't know what you watched this year, but I saw some very good races. Better than quite a few seasons IMO.

Is it perfect? definitely not. It's pretty good though.

[strad]

No other way to express it.

[Nickel]

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/STRAD2/ ... f.gif.html
No other way to express it.

Actually words could probably do better. I suspect our definition of what makes f1 the very best of motorsports is at odds. In regards to your fuel economy complaint, I once again bring up the point that I recall this happening all through the last twenty years, even with refuelling. Bouts of non-stop qually laps in the refuelling era don't erase stretches of fuel saving to stretch a window or make a strategy work. I feel your point of view is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

back on topic, I have wondered for some time if Eclestone's ramblings are not both pandering to people who dislike change and also simply a way to generate media attention. In other words, simply a case of no such thing as bad publicity.

Edited for a missed auto-correct...

[Jersey Tom]

i'll admit i'm fairly blank on what cars in the 80's and 90's benefitted from F1 tech.

You're right, they haven't. Technology goes from road/consumer to race, not the other way around.

[Nickel]

Technology goes from road/consumer to race, not the other way around.

Indeed this is the case. However, it would seem motorsport can be a key driver of public opinion with regards to new technology. For example, Audi has much to gain by making the public realize diesel technology is not just for trucks and ships; thus LMP is a good place for them to showcase their tech. This by no means suggest they`re using LMP to advance their work, or as some sort of R&D test bed; although, who knows, they may learn something anyways. It`s about making the public think diesel can be fast and sexy, as well as economical.

Similarly, it would appear to be one of the driving forces behind F1`s V6 turbo ers formula. Ferrari are not so much in favor because they don`t stand to gain much by convincing the public of the performance of such a design. In fact, they`ll have to be the ones to transfer what`s learned on track to at least some of their cars or risk dissociating their work on track with what they sell in the showroom. Unfortunate for them. Renault, Mercedes and now Honda however, do not have as the bulk of their product, big block NA engines. They are in it for the PR and the prestige (which are perhaps the same thing...) and especially the public opinion. This is a form of road-relevance no?

Cyril Abiteboul of Renault was recently even quoted as such:

“... the fantastic power of the F1 marketing platform allows us to promote these new technologies to speed up their adoption by customers worldwide by demonstrating that energy frugality and very high performance are not mutually exclusive.
“F1 cars are hugely competitive this season despite consuming 35% less fuel. If the regulations had remained the same (V8, high fuel consumption) we would not have been able to deliver any of these relevant messages through the sport.

Source : http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/12/r ... r-message/

PS: Is there any road-going car currently recovering energy from the turbo as done in F1 with the 2014 formula?

[Richard]

It's all about the consumer relevant branding. Given some luck that might also be road relevant branding, but telephones, retail banks and whisky will be fine as well.

Back to topic, Bernie does seem to be a bit of a Mark Twain - reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

[taperoo2k]

Bernie will either be forced out (fireworks a plenty) or those with vested interests in F1 are simply waiting for him to die.
I believe the EU Commission is looking into the governance of F1 again, so that could mean trouble for Bernie.

If you want to be at the pinnacle of motorsport it should be at the forefront of engineering and technology, v8's etc are old technology. The power trains will only improve over time and gain more horse power. The future is going to about more efficient uses of energy and different fuels. The likes of Mercedes, Renault and Honda would likely not take kindly to having spent lots of cash on these engines only to have them scrapped at short notice. They are here to stay, no matter what Bernie keeps yammering on about (possibly trying to drive the price of F1 down so he can buy it back from CVC on the cheap no doubt).
Williams sold the flywheel technology recently, it's being developed for use in buses and other vehicles. Nice little earner for the team and part of why it's been able to get itself moving in the right direction.
If you want to see where F1 technology has spun off into in recent years, McLaren have done a pretty good job of transferring technology from F1 and adapting it for other sectors. http://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechnologies/

There is more to F1 than merely the technology in engines, just take a look at the kind of infrastructure you need to run two cars over the course of a weekend.

[Ciro Pabón]

But when was F1 the pinnacle? and what conciders it to be the pinnacle?

Formula One is the top series in the international body that regulates racing, from "sea to shining sea".

That's what, I think, it means the famous "pinnacle".

It's not strictly related to technology (nor, dear Strad, related strictly to keep the "old ways" we liked).

If we talk about technology, perhaps rocket competitions or airplane races are more technologically demanding.

Astronaut Mike Melvill after his award-winning effort, September 29, 2004


If it's for the nostalgia factor, NHRA, NASCAR wins any day of the year.

The traditionalist American National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing of America in the United States of America is an American association of American racers based in America...

... in case you haven't noticed



If it's for the engineering competition, there you have Le Mans, where there is an explicit engineering competition for the fuel economy class.

Endurance races are engineering competitions. Who would have thought in 2002 that all Le Mans winners in 2014 would be diesel powered cars?

I would have had a heart attack if someone had told me back then


So, my conclusion: what makes F1 the pinnacle is FIA. If FIA decides otherwise, then the pinnacle is what they decide to be the pinnacle, it's all in their regulations.

That's why you never know how to classify NHRA: they (and NASCAR, the traditionalists) have defended fiercely the right to create their own regulations, alone among all series.

If this is not another pinnacle, I have no idea what it is

[WaikeCU]

I always thought F1 stands for fastest and most talented drivers. It's also the fastest form of open wheel single seaters. F1 used to be rough, sexy, dirty and driven by men with gigantic balls. Now, I feel, it's clean, efficient and driven by the fittest.

[SectorOne]

Who would have thought in 2002 that all Le Mans winners in 2014 would be diesel powered cars?

Last time i checked only one car of all the Le Mans winners of 2014 was driven by diesel.
Do you mean up to 2014 (which can´t be right either) or do you mean the LMP1 class solely?
Or just all of Audi´s wins?

[mclaren111]

If they can get rid of Sepp Blatter, there is hope for F1 and removing BE [-o<

[rich1701]

The only way to reduce costs in the short term whilst maintaining the spirit of the constructors championship is to allow smaller teams to use normally aspirated units again. Watching new technology surpass old technology on track. That has to be interesting.

[ojlopez]

If they can get rid of Sepp Blatter, there is hope for F1 and removing BE [-o<

I sure hope so too. Bernie has stopped being a leader and started seeing his own interests only.

[Manoah2u]

whoa! holy topic revival, batman!