Engine Unfreeze

[Richard]

Lets put everything out can we
1. You can only homologate ONCE

Where is that in the regs? There is nothing saying once per season. The only clause about timing says 28 Feb 2014 and that after that any changes must be homolgated with no mention of how often.

The FIA were relying on the 28 Feb deadline to make sure homolgation only took place once per season. That rule has been blown out of the water and there is no back up to say once per season.

[KeiKo403]

I guess it's in reference to this:

F1 Sporting regulations 2015
APPENDIX 4
POWER UNIT HOMOLOGATION

Code: Select all

2. A manufacturer may homologate no more than one specification of power unit.

[siskue2005]

Lets put everything out can we
1. You can only homologate ONCE

Where is that in the regs?

Once homologated in accordance with a) or b) above, and except as permitted by (c)
below, no changes may be made to the design or construction of the homologated
parts for the duration of the homologation period laid out in Article 28.5 of the F1
Sporting Regulations.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/Spor ... t-2015.pdf
Appendix 4
2. A manufacturer may homologate no more than one specification of power unit.

that rule is for one year. as they issue new sporting rule every year

[Richard]

That rule could be read as saying only one specification may be homlogated at any moment, ie you can't have parallel specs at the same time.

[skt36]

So it seems the FIA haven't defined a homolgation period, just like they didn't specify a homolgation date.

The homologation period is 2014-2020 as stated in 28.5. Once a PU is homologated no changes can be made until 2020.

You can however homologate a new PU using 1.b (tokens), or 1.c (reliability)

This then becomes the homologated power unit.

2. A manufacturer may homologate no more than one specification of power unit.

This means that only one PU can be homologated at any one time. You can't have a different PU for each team.

[TAG]

Two things are important here in making a distinction, and I believe for that we have to look at what Renault and Ferrari were originally pushing for.

1- they didn't have enough time by Feb 28th to implement all of the changes they wanted to make therefore they wanted in year development.

2- Their issue was that once homologated they then could no longer bring the additional upgrades the additional tokens allowed them.

So the FiA is giving Renault and Ferrari exactly what they asked for. They can take their time to work their 2015 lump. and they can bring in one lump for homologation with the full 32 tokens instead of shorting what they could do (and the number of tokens used) for the remainder of the year.

Nothing has really changed for Honda as they would have been frozen as well as every other team Feb 28th. Only thing gained is Ferrari and Renault now have more time to present for homologation their completed product, not a half completed product.

What we have to look at is what is the wording of the regulations that will change for 2016.

[Richard]

All it needed was a clause to say engines must be submitted for homolgation x weeks before the first event instead of a hard coded date. That infers single homolgation per season, but it'd be worth adding an explicit clause for that too.

[Blackout]

So it seems the FIA haven't defined a homolgation period, just like they didn't specify a homolgation date.

The homologation period is 2014-2020 as stated in 28.5. Once a PU is homologated no changes can be made until 2020.

You can however homologate a new PU using 1.b (tokens), or 1.c (reliability)

This then becomes the homologated power unit.

2. A manufacturer may homologate no more than one specification of power unit.

This means that only one PU can be homologated at any one time. You can't have a different PU for each team.

But you dont need to homologate them immediately. Do you? You can just modifiy them:

b) A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014 which has been modified in accordance with the Annual F1 Power Unit Homologation table in Appendix 4 to the F1 Technical Regulations.

and not ''which has been homologated''

The Merc, Reno and F PU which have been modified for reliability reasons and homologated after 28.04.2014 and modified using the token system are in accordance with b). arent they?

[skt36]

An homologated power unit ... is one which is identical in every respect to ... A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014 which has been modified in accordance with the Annual F1 Power Unit Homologation table in Appendix 4 to the F1 Technical Regulations.

Which makes the modified PU a homologated PU.

The act of delivering it to the FIA homologates it.

[diffuser]

On http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30685450

It says
"Honda, which has returned to F1 this season following an absence of six years, has the option of lodging a protest against Ferrari, who discovered the loophole that has led to the change in interpretation of the rules by the FIA."

So I wonder what happens if Honda Files a protest just before FP3 in Australia ? Nobody will be allowed any engine mods till it's ruled on ?

I mean, that's what I'd do. I'd wait till someone was ready to apply an update(guess-a-mate), file a protest and block it for as long as possible. Usually major upgrades happen around the first euro race (Spain). If you get lucky..maybe some aero updates are dependent on PU changes(2 birds with 1 stone).

By doing so they ensure the protest will fail. That's not fair business

I don't follow you.

[f1316]

Ok, so autosport make their interpretation of the rule very clear:

AUTOSPORT revealed last week that a loophole in the F1 technical regulations means Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault are allowed to introduce updates to their 2014 engines at any time over the course of this year.

[McLobby]

The championship should be decided by the ''freezed'' solution the manufacturers have to offer this season.
I thought that was the idea of engines freeze from the beginning...

Why should last seasons homologations be valid and usable in a new season with different circumstances and new competitors?
If you can only homologate one PU each season, then using 2 different PUs in one season is like homologating twice

If using last seasons engines is ok then in 2016 they should be able to use 3 different engines including 2014 and 2015 ones, until they homologate their new 2016 PU for the season )

FIA should have replied to Ferrari's loop-hole like this:
Since you need a homologated PU to race, starting the new season with last years engine's is like homologating that engine too.
You can't bend the freezing rules presenting 2014s homologation as valid and usable in the new season,
You had the time you needed to use your 32 tokens before 28 Feb. as planned.

The teams wanted the unfreeze so the could have in-season development and try to catch Mercedes
It doesn't matter the fact they have to homologate only once and include all 32 token in that update...
It's still in-season development, something that was out of question before this ''loop-hole''

Wanting to extend this time period during the season means there is some benefit to it. Probably by analyzing even more data from the first races, spot issues and faults, observe others and also the pace of Honda, etc.
That would bring out their weaknesses and give them a development path as to what they should improve and be sure they followed the right path of development when they decide to homologate.

If it's not such a big deal and not such an advantage, then why did they bother finding this loop-hole and suggesting it to FIA?
Obviously they have something to gain by not homologating before 28 Feb.
A gain, from which Honda is excluded.

If you say the rules are not clear or not specific enough, I agree but then that's why FIA is a joke.
That, and by allowing certain teams to manipulate them.

If all of the sudden you are going to bend the rules using loopholes for the new season, then apply them to all competitors and don't take into consideration the previous season circumstances,
Cause if you do then you should also give Honda 5 PUs instead of 4 and 32 tokens for next season instead of 26.

[skt36]

Because nothing says that the previous homologation is invalid.

Have a read through the regulations and you will see Appendix IV explains that a homologated power unit is one of 3 things.

1.a A PU delivered to the FIA before 28-2-14
1.b A PU delivered after that date modified under the tokens system
1.c A PU delivered after that date (either new or modified) with modifications not covered by the token system

The granting of homologation to a PU under 1.c is conditional on the FIA in consultation with the other manufacturers deciding that it is "fair and equitable" to allow it to compete.

The 2014 engine will always be homologated under 1.a until a new power unit is homologated.

[hollus]

If a PU manufacterer can only have 1 homologated design at any given time, and they rehomologate throughtout the season, how does it work with several teams that need to change different parts of the PU at different times?

[bonjon1979]

So it seems the FIA haven't defined a homolgation period, just like they didn't specify a homolgation date.

The homologation period is 2014-2020 as stated in 28.5. Once a PU is homologated no changes can be made until 2020.

You can however homologate a new PU using 1.b (tokens), or 1.c (reliability)

This then becomes the homologated power unit.

2. A manufacturer may homologate no more than one specification of power unit.

This means that only one PU can be homologated at any one time. You can't have a different PU for each team.

Well, I think they're on fairly shaky ground with that one. Stewards may decide differently.