Engine Unfreeze

[Blackout]

Still there is no clarity about how the 32 tokens can be introduced
Should they introduce all 32 tokens at once or could they introduce it in parts throughout the season ?
If for example a token is introduced can they change it again ?
And mind you there is only 4 engines per driver, so only 4 chances to introduce a token

I now think it's quite clear that you can keep making changes throughout the season (up to 32 token limit and with a four engine limit) as that's now being reported everywhere.

Took me ages to get clarity, so wouldn't be surprised if somehow there's a further clarification, but that's what seems to be the case as far as I can see.

Everywhere? No IMO people are still divided in 3 groups regarding this question: one group thinks you can homologate a PU more than once, the second group thinks only one homologation is permitted and the third group has no clue/isnt sure.
Like in this forum.

[Richard]

Fourth group - Homolgation occurred on 28th Feb 2014. Tokens are used in subsequent calendar years, these can be used as required in that year.

[f1316]

Still there is no clarity about how the 32 tokens can be introduced
Should they introduce all 32 tokens at once or could they introduce it in parts throughout the season ?
If for example a token is introduced can they change it again ?
And mind you there is only 4 engines per driver, so only 4 chances to introduce a token

I now think it's quite clear that you can keep making changes throughout the season (up to 32 token limit and with a four engine limit) as that's now being reported everywhere.

Took me ages to get clarity, so wouldn't be surprised if somehow there's a further clarification, but that's what seems to be the case as far as I can see.

Everywhere? No IMO people are still divided in 3 groups regarding this question: one group thinks you can homologate a PU more than once, the second group thinks only one homologation is permitted and the third group has no clue/isnt sure.
Like in this forum.

Ok, so I've read that view on: autosport, bbc, motorsport.com, Crash.net

Also, on that final one, marchione refers to it in those terms

being able to modify the engines during the season,

http://m.crash.net/f1/news/212941/1/fer ... ctory.html

[mika vs michael]

What I understand is that you can bring the 2015 engine and keep updating it in 2015 until you reach 32 tokens. After that only for reliability purposes. The only thing left is what is going to happen with Honda. Is it going to get the 32 tokens as well or homologation until 28.02.15? I think for the time being the second scenario is on. but there is discussion so that scenario 1 happens for honda as well and not only the rest of manufacturers

[raymondu999]

Forget 32 - Honda had an unlimited number of tokens to spend THROUGH 2014 and UP TO the first race of 2015.

[Richard]

Actually Honda have to homolgate on 28th Feb 2015. They are limited to 4 PUs and expected to compete against teams who had the luxury of 5 PUs in their first year.

Given a choice I'd rather have the PU with a year of racing under its belt, not an untested and unraced PU.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Actually Honda have to homolgate on 28th Feb 2015. They are limited to 4 PUs and expected to compete against teams who had the luxury of 5 PUs in their first year.

Given a choice I'd rather have the PU with a year of racing under its belt, not an untested and unraced PU.

At the end of last December, it would not be surprising if McLaren and Honda Internally had no expectations of winning Championships and/or Races in their first year. But these new developments, would definitely give them hope of winning by continuously developing the PU (after homologation). For a PU Manufacturer running first time in new era, it would be absolutely OK to have some PU failures, but if along the line comes some wins, why not? One PU less is fine if they can win and set the base for 2016, even if they have to take some penalties for an extra PU. That would be a great situation to be in.

[astracrazy]

yes, i don't know how it works.

But like the vodafone days the car was a rocket red i.e more orange. In pictures and tv this appears red, in person more orange.

When i was at silverstone classic the old mclarens were like this as well (marlboro). Some of my photos in the light you can see the orange colour they actually are then further down the car its red.




@Manoah2u

You make good points about lotus - i'd missed that.

[McG]

Forget 32 - Honda had an unlimited number of tokens to spend THROUGH 2014 and UP TO the first race of 2015.

They weren't a formula 1 team in 2014.

[iotar__]

Forget 32 - Honda had an unlimited number of tokens to spend THROUGH 2014 and UP TO the first race of 2015.

They weren't a formula 1 team in 2014.

Exactly and it's not about semantics. That's what this (fake, made up, robbery) "loophole" is all about. To develop mid-season you need tokens, Honda had none. "Unlimited"? The same as any other manufacturer before entering new F1 engine rules minus 32 before and throughout 2015 . The topic is not advantages and disadvantages of entering later but about changing the rules to help couple of teams, these are separate issues.

"Engine freeze" itself is also a separate issue. Phrase and philosophy made up by Ferrari and RB to justify their lobbying for change of rules for their own gains. 1. it's limited development not freeze. 2. Wasn't it Ferrari blocking development in 2014? I don't remember whether it confirmed or just a rumour.

[frosty125]

When it comes to Honda the FIA are free to interpret the regulations to give Honda 32 tokens or not as the regulations don't cover the scenario that they have found themselves in. They can either say when they homologate their first engine Honda have used all their 2015 tokens or when they homologate they have 32 tokens left.

[adrianjordan]

Okay, can someone clear this up for me.

When an engine manufacturer homologates a 2015 engine, doesn't that mean that their 2014 engine is no longer homologated? And likewise if they are allowed to bring subsequent updates and homologate an updated engine, the previous spec is no longer homologated - due to the rule saying that only 1 spec can be homologated at a time.

So say Ferrari start the season using their 2014 PU and then homologate an updated spec after 4 races...they have to start using that spec. BUT what if 1 of their cars, or 1 of their customer cars had a failure during those first 4 races and had to take a second PU (or part-thereof). How does that work? Because they can't continue using the old spec - it's no longer homologated.

I guess what I'm saying is that IF the engine suppliers are allowed to homologate updated PU's during the season, will EVERY car running that supplier's PU have to change to the new PU at the same time, regardless of where they were in their previous PU cycle??

[Moose]

Okay, can someone clear this up for me.

When an engine manufacturer homologates a 2015 engine, doesn't that mean that their 2014 engine is no longer homologated? And likewise if they are allowed to bring subsequent updates and homologate an updated engine, the previous spec is no longer homologated - due to the rule saying that only 1 spec can be homologated at a time.

So say Ferrari start the season using their 2014 PU and then homologate an updated spec after 4 races...they have to start using that spec. BUT what if 1 of their cars, or 1 of their customer cars had a failure during those first 4 races and had to take a second PU (or part-thereof). How does that work? Because they can't continue using the old spec - it's no longer homologated.

I guess what I'm saying is that IF the engine suppliers are allowed to homologate updated PU's during the season, will EVERY car running that supplier's PU have to change to the new PU at the same time, regardless of where they were in their previous PU cycle??

Yes, every car will have to switch immediately. This actually gives the big teams the power to screw over the little teams by choosing to re-homologate exactly after lots of small teams have just taken a new engine.

[lebesset]

i keep reading that honda have had an extra year to develop their power unit
so the other 3 have sat on their hands and not done any development work during that time ?
how will honda have a greater knowledge than the other power unit suppliers have gained during the same time , in reality they will have less , they have no experience whatever with this formula , since when have test bed results provided all the answers , they couldn't even make the car run at the end of season test !

[Blackout]

The other manufacturers had 0 experience with this formula at the beginning too. they started this PU from a blank sheet. and they were fighting for the title with a complete different engine in the same time, unlike Honda.
And Honda don not have to spend a token or two putting variable trumpets in its engine like the others : P