Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ian_s]

i might be very wrong, but that looks to me like that might actually be the indycar twin turbo engine.
the manifolds just dont seem to converge very much

edit: nope, just looked up pictures of the honda indy engine, the turbos would be alonside the engine, not behind it.

[Facts Only]

i might be very wrong, but that looks to me like that might actually be the indycar twin turbo engine.
the manifolds just dont seem to converge very much

edit: nope, just looked up pictures of the honda indy engine, the turbos would be alonside the engine, not behind it.

I thought that as well, also looked up the HPD LMP engine and that's completely different as well.

[dren]

Some of the technologies that have been introduced to the power train haven't existed before.

That quote is from Ron Dennis. I don't know what he could be talking about. My only guess is a trick cooling solution or something on the ERS side.

[GoranF1]

Some of the technologies that have been introduced to the power train haven't existed before.

That quote is from Ron Dennis. I don't know what he could be talking about. My only guess is a trick cooling solution or something on the ERS side.

there must of been a dozen quotes from Mclaren&Honda about "new to F1" technology!? can anyone guess what do they mean?

[dren]

It almost has to be on the ERS side. Either the ES, motors, or both. The ICE is tightly regulated.

[mrluke]

Probably just a fancy version of locktite holding a couple of bolts together..

[dren]

Probably just a fancy version of locktite holding a couple of bolts together..

Hondabond

[ozzimark]

Does anyone have the actual wording in the regulations regarding the measurement of fuel flow to the engine?

Is it possible that the pulsing that we hear from the Honda engine is some sort of fuel flow/ERS trickery to take advantage of lack of measurement precision during transients in fuel flow, or something to that effect?

[gruntguru]

No.

[onewingedangel]

Are the energy stores required to be lithium-ion or could they opt for lithium-air, which if functional would be far lighter and more compact for a set capacity?

[djos]

Are the energy stores required to be lithium-ion or could they opt for lithium-air, which if functional would be far lighter and more compact for a set capacity?

There is no restriction on energy storage type at all. It doesn't even have to be batteries, it can be super capacitors or even flywheel Tech.

[ozzimark]

The measurement is taken at a high sampling rate (1kHz) and then the average over a certain timespan is taken. It will be difficult to pulse the fuelflow in such high frequency in sync with the sensor. Even more, as I guess the sensor won't output a trigger signal.

Is it a turbine-style flow meter? Or one of the non-contacting measurement methods, like ultrasonic?

If they're sampling at 1kHz, the sensor definitely responds much slower than that; at the very most, Nyquist frequency is half the sample rate, and that's assuming an impossibly steep high-cut filter on the output signal to prevent sampling artifacts during the digitization process. Realistically, the sensor's response to changes in flow probably drops off around a couple hundred Hz. Still far to fast for much in the way of flow trickery.

I was envisioning some kind of surge/release with an accumulator after the flow sensor for momentary bursts of power at a much slower rate, such that the ERS can respond accordingly and still deliver a smooth output to the wheels.

All this is simply conjuncture based on the pulsing sound from the engine as the car accelerates out of the turns and down the straight. It could just be a test engine map setting with goofy things going on to limit power and RPM, and nothing more. We'll see as testing progresses, I guess.

[wuzak]

The measurement is taken at a high sampling rate (1kHz) and then the average over a certain timespan is taken. It will be difficult to pulse the fuelflow in such high frequency in sync with the sensor. Even more, as I guess the sensor won't output a trigger signal.

Is it a turbine-style flow meter? Or one of the non-contacting measurement methods, like ultrasonic?

If they're sampling at 1kHz, the sensor definitely responds much slower than that; at the very most, Nyquist frequency is half the sample rate, and that's assuming an impossibly steep high-cut filter on the output signal to prevent sampling artifacts during the digitization process. Realistically, the sensor's response to changes in flow probably drops off around a couple hundred Hz. Still far to fast for much in the way of flow trickery.

I was envisioning some kind of surge/release with an accumulator after the flow sensor for momentary bursts of power at a much slower rate, such that the ERS can respond accordingly and still deliver a smooth output to the wheels.

All this is simply conjuncture based on the pulsing sound from the engine as the car accelerates out of the turns and down the straight. It could just be a test engine map setting with goofy things going on to limit power and RPM, and nothing more. We'll see as testing progresses, I guess.

i Believe the sensor is ultrasonic.

As to the rest of your speculation, any attempt to gain an effective rate above what is allowed (ie cheat the system) is specifically outlawed in the regulations. If you used the accumulator you suggest you may not be allowed to particpate in any motorsport sanctioned by the FIA or one of its affiliates for several years. That pretty much leaves NASCAR....

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah accumaltors are banned.
The only way to cheat the flow meter without tampering with it is to inject the fuel somehow into the intake tract without using injectors.....

Another way to get extra power is to have a gearbox or a low pressure tubine transfeeing torque from the turbocharger to the crankshaft. The beauty of this system is that it bypasses the kilowatt limit imposed on the MGUK power transfer to tbe crankshaft.

[bill shoe]

been some discussion about lower Honda sound. I listened to video clips and it's clear the Honda is sometimes a full ocatave lower than mercedes. so I can think of a couple explanations-

1. they don't have even firing order and/or fire two cylinders at same time. this could be done for "big-bang" reasons.
2. when less than 50% torque is demanded by driver, the engine fires every other cylinder. They could even go over 50% torque with 3 cylinders because they would still be allowed 100% of max fuel flow. But I kind of doubt they went far in that direction.

both of the above explanations could create a big-bang effect, and/or help fuel economy. Big-bang is the trick for tire traction as originally done years ago for Honda racing motorcycles.

I noticed the pitch changed an octave up when the driver went from decel/coasting to accel. So I think there is a bit of cylinder deactivation or something active going on.

are they required to run all exhausts through the turbo all the time? I guess obviously not because a wastegate is precisely a bypass. Wonder if they completely wastegate one whole bank of cylinders during light torque demand?