Team: Toto Wolff (Executive Director - Business), Paddy Lowe (Executive Director - Technical), Andy Cowell (Executive Director of Mercedes AMG Powertrains), Niki Lauda (Chairman), Bob Bell (TD), Aldo Costa (ED), Geoffrey Willis (Technology Director), Ron Meadows (SD), Andrew Shovlin (CRE), Simon Cole (CTE), Matthew Dane (CM) Drivers: Lewis Hamilton (44), Nico Rosberg (6) Team name: Mercedes AMG F1 Petronas
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
ringo wrote:They don't have to be using tokens until the homologation date. They can use any evolution of the power unit and any upgrage slated for it's respective tokens, and still not have to make a submission of tokens. At least this is what I understand.
I feel it's only after the homologation deadline are they restricted to using different upgrades, and have to submit tokens.
I think you are correct. The car doesn't have to be legal in winter testing so they can use any experimental parts they like in testing. There is no date for homolgation this season so the token counter starts ticking with the updates they bring to Melbourne.
To correct the terminology, the existing PUs were homologated once, ie 28th Feb 2014. After that tokens are used for any updates. As I mentioned in the unfreeze thread:
The PU used in 2015 will be the 2014 PU plus modifications during the year using the 2015 tokens
In 2016 the PU will be a 2014 PU with 2015 modifications plus additional modifications during the year using the 2016 tokens.
In 2017 the PU will be a 2014 PU with 2015 and 2016 modifications plus additional modifications during the year using the 2017 tokens.
It could not be any clearer as stated above =D>
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake
ringo wrote:They don't have to be using tokens until the homologation date. They can use any evolution of the power unit and any upgrage slated for it's respective tokens, and still not have to make a submission of tokens. At least this is what I understand.
I feel it's only after the homologation deadline are they restricted to using different upgrades, and have to submit tokens.
Have you been living under a rock? There is no homologation date for this year - its wide open all year.
Was that really necessary?
That's a non-offensive figure of speech, are you a native English speaker cause I can see how it could be misconstrued.
turbof1 wrote:Ringo might mean the date Mercedes chooses to do the first homologation. After all you do need to homologate your PU before you are allowed to race that. However, you are allowed to homologate as much as you want until december 31st.
So let's not jump on eachother's back, because there is always a chance he got it right and you understood him wrong!
Turbo, I wasn't trying to jump on his back...and I think he misunderstands the current situation since he used the term "homologation deadline" - there is no deadline
We'll let Ringo clear that up. I'm only asking to be careful with assumptions.
Technically speaking, but it's more nitpicking to be honest, the deadline is december 31st 2015. This is not explicitly mentioned, but the year on top of the token table (yes it's very sad that you need to search for an ounce of working regulations in a mere excell table) implies the period is 2015, so the very last moment you can homologate anything is the aforementioned date. But until then you can homologate as much as you want, as how many times you want, within the 32 tokens you have.
Moving back to Mercedes PU, technically it's 2015 PU. Maybe to make things easier we should call it the "a-version"? They'll most likely introduce a b-version and perhaps even a c-version later on. Point in case: Mercedes has tried out tokens (but not homologated yet), we don't know how many they tested and which tokens will eventually be homologated in the a-version, but we know they are testing new parts.
Richard wrote:I think you are correct. The car doesn't have to be legal in winter testing so they can use any experimental parts they like in testing.
Ted Kravitz said the opposite. This year the car actually has to be legal and the only reason Red Bull was allowed to run without a front wing was because they specifically asked for permission to do some laps.
I don´t know though but he said it in one of the post-test-analysis.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"
Richard wrote:I think you are correct. The car doesn't have to be legal in winter testing so they can use any experimental parts they like in testing.
Ted Kravitz said the opposite. This year the car actually has to be legal and the only reason Red Bull was allowed to run without a front wing was because they specifically asked for permission to do some laps.
I don´t know though but he said it in one of the post-test-analysis.
You are right I'm sure it was when he was talking about the Red Bull losing it's front wing during testing and didn't have another,
and Red Bull had to get permission to use the car with out the front wing
Richard wrote:I think you are correct. The car doesn't have to be legal in winter testing so they can use any experimental parts they like in testing.
Ted Kravitz said the opposite. This year the car actually has to be legal and the only reason Red Bull was allowed to run without a front wing was because they specifically asked for permission to do some laps.
I don´t know though but he said it in one of the post-test-analysis.
You are right I'm sure it was when he was talking about the Red Bull losing the front wing on the first day of testing
and Red Bull had to get permission to use the car with out the front wing
The cars must adhere to following:
Competitors may only participate in TCC, TPC or PE using cars which have been subjected to,
and fulfilled the requirements of, the tests described in Articles 16.2-6, 17.2-3 and 18.2-9 of the F1 Technical Regulations.
Any car used for TCC or PE must be fitted with the panels described in Articles 15.4.7 and 15.4.8 of the F1 Technical Regulations
Those are crash test and static load test regulations. So FIA mostly cares about safety. I think that is why there were consultations about front wing in RBR case.
Also standard ECU must be used.
Competitors may only participate in TCC, TPC or PE using cars which have been subjected to,
and fulfilled the requirements of, the tests described in Articles 16.2-6, 17.2-3 and 18.2-9 of the F1 Technical Regulations.
Any car used for TCC or PE must be fitted with the panels described in Articles 15.4.7 and 15.4.8 of the F1 Technical Regulations
Those are crash test and static load test regulations. So FIA mostly cares about safety. I think that is why there were consultations about front wing in RBR case.
Also standard ECU must be used.
Indeed. Otherwise all those aero testing devices would be illegal!
AFAIK a PU supplier could switch different parts (eg water pump) on the PU to test which one is best. It's only when they turn up in Melbourne that they have to declare which bits they are going to use and cash in the relevant tokens (eg hello scrutineer, we'll be using this water pump from now on and here is 1 token)
turbof1 wrote:We'll let Ringo clear that up. I'm only asking to be careful with assumptions.
Technically speaking, but it's more nitpicking to be honest, the deadline is december 31st 2015. This is not explicitly mentioned, but the year on top of the token table (yes it's very sad that you need to search for an ounce of working regulations in a mere excell table) implies the period is 2015, so the very last moment you can homologate anything is the aforementioned date. But until then you can homologate as much as you want, as how many times you want, within the 32 tokens you have.,
Moving back to Mercedes PU, technically it's 2015 PU. Maybe to make things easier we should call it the "a-version"? They'll most likely introduce a b-version and perhaps even a c-version later on. Point in case: Mercedes has tried out tokens (but not homologated yet), we don't know how many they tested and which tokens will eventually be homologated in the a-version, but we know they are testing new parts.
This is what I meant. And doesn't change the crux of my post. They could be using any upgrade on the engine in testing. It doesn't have to be upgrades slated for Melbourne.
